How to Be a GURPS GM: Managing Expectations

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by maximara

But no one had that "You can do anything" means "You must do/allow everything"

I think that hit (a) nail on the head. The biggest barrier to a new player looking to build a character is sorting through all the options, and knowing what their GM (or genre) says they can buy vs. should buy vs. can't buy. (Basically, imagine if the chapters on Advantages, Disadvantages, and Skills were organized like the "skill categories" PDF...)

However, I think Kromm's point may have been that new players don't even get that far, because the old players keep saying things like "to really play, you need these 5 books and do all the cross-referencing yourself" and "to really do it right you need these 8 books and these 10 or so old Pyramid articles, and..."

I could go on a rant about that just as easily as I could go on a rant about "what I would improve if I were in charge of GURPS and had infinite time/cash." But neither rant will help new players get into it; in fact, either rant will probably drive new players away.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Willy

Imho the problem is that it is 15 years old and faces the same problems as the old 3rd Ed. more and more options came into play and there is no compendium or collection of all this things. Everybody who wants to know how many spells, skills or advantedes and so on, are now there has to do it by himself or search fanpages, which is a heavy drawback and not very user friendly.

The issues of the fourth edition are much different than the issues of the third edition. In the third edition, the structure of the rules was "only the stuff totally in common in the Basic Set; new rules supporting specific genres in supplements," while the structure of the fourth edition is "all rules possible in the Basic Set; supplements tell you how to use those rules or give you optional variants on the Basic Set rules."

Toward the end of the third edition, it was basically impossible to write a supplement that didn't tell you to use half a dozen other supplements to get all the rules the supplement expected you to have, not to mention the fact that the revised Basic Set and at least one of the Compendia were required.

In the fourth edition, you mostly don't have that problem. Books like Powers and Martial Arts are not required to play the game. Supplements like the Power-Ups series are not required. Rules found in Dungeon Fantasy are not required. The stuff you get in Pyramid is all very optional.

So when people say things like they have to search through fifteen years' worth of supplements to get all the rules they need, and this is therefore not newbie-friendly, they're wrong. No one needs to collect all the supplements to get all the rules. That was a third-edition problem, not a fourth-edition one. All you need is the Basic Set. Honestly. A supplement dealing with your desired campaign can be a great help, but no one outside of the scope of the supplement needs those rules. Even someone running a campaign covered by a supplement doesn't actually NEED that supplement most of the time.

There are some exceptions to the fourth-edition structure, of course. Powers got some basic rules that there just wasn't enough room for in the Basic Set. The spell selection in the Basic Set isn't really comprehensive for a standard fantasy campaign — the third-edition Basic Set's selection was better — so Magic is usually really important for a campaign regularly featuring wizards. Bestiary never got made, so people feel compelled to collect animals and creatures from various supplements and fan sites.

So I'm not saying the fourth edition is perfect, not by a longshot. But an overwhelming number of required supplements just isn't a fourth-edition problem. It's when newbies ask what books they should get, and GURPS forumites start listing twenty-eleven supplements at them, that the problems arise.

[Prince Charon]

I sort of wonder if the company might be able to boost interest (and thus sales) by publishing or licensing fiction set in worlds SJGames already owns the rights to, like Yrth, or the Infinite Worlds oversetting. Of course, there may be logistical problems with this that I'm not considering (other than 'Who is going to write it?').

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I sort of wonder if the company might be able to boost interest (and thus sales) by publishing or licensing fiction set in worlds SJGames already owns the rights to, like Yrth, or the Infinite Worlds oversetting. Of course, there may be logistical problems with this that I'm not considering (other than 'Who is going to write it?').

YRTH ? I buy it immediately. Bu tastes can differ widely Technomancer could also need a uplift in the 4th Ed. and it´s already introduced though various hints in several 4th Ed supplements.

[Keampe]

I think the "Powered by GURPS" idea is a marvelous way to go. Pack up all the rules for one particular game type and that's what you need. There's a bunch of extras, but you only need - insert powered buy GURPS book - to play.

This is far less confusing to new players than the basic set - where you get a sampling of everything including lots of stuff you aren't going to use. I mean, the core books have rules for bulletproof nudity and and also for bleeding. It has Magic, Psi and superpowers. It has cinematic and mundane mixed together with no clear lines as to which is which. Most campaigns I run there are whole big sections I'll never touch. Not a problem for an experienced GURPS GM, but overwhelming for new players.

The Powered by GURPS, in contrast has everything you need and nothing you don't. I'm hoping they can become an entry to GURPS for new players.


- Shane

[Purple Snit]

Honestly, the best entry for new GURPS players is a GM who knows when to use a rule and when to keep the action rolling. If it's fun to play the game, and you only add the complexity you need to keep things moving (so no detailed martial arts unless you have wuxia fans for players, or no Gun-fu unless you're playing an appropriate genre, as examples), it really isn't complicated, especially next to, say, Pathfinder 1st edition or Hero System or D&D. I've played Supers, fantasy, horror, monster hunters, and Gods reborn, all with GURPS, and often with new players. I haven't yet had a complaint of "it's too complicated" (though I did have one of "it's too lethal", which it can be). The problem is players on the forums who insist it HAS TO BE complicated - what's realistic strength for a "normal" human; what are "realistic" limits on skills; how hard should it really be to hit location 'x'. Honestly, most players will never need to know or use that level of detail. And it puts people off (and not just new players...). It's supposed to be fun, not work.

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by Purple Snit

Honestly, the best entry for new GURPS players is a GM who knows when to use a rule and when to keep the action rolling. If it's fun to play the game, and you only add the complexity you need to keep things moving ... It's supposed to be fun, not work.

^^This, with emphasis.

On a personal note, and from a GMing perspective, I feel blessed that I've got such lazy players. In our playing group, there's only one other person that owns GURPS rule books and extras, and the rest can keep in mind the absolute basics, faux GURPS Light, if you will. The end result is I may have to do more prep work, and par down the amount of information the players need to take on board prior to play during a session, but fun is still had. Which for me, is the whole point of the exercise.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

^^This, with emphasis.

On a personal note, and from a GMing perspective, I feel blessed that I've got such lazy players. In our playing group, there's only one other person that owns GURPS rule books and extras, and the rest can keep in mind the absolute basics, faux GURPS Light, if you will. The end result is I may have to do more prep work, and par down the amount of information the players need to take on board prior to play during a session, but fun is still had. Which for me, is the whole point of the exercise.

How dare you, sir! We are not here to have fun! This is serious business!

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by Anders

How dare you, sir! We are not here to have fun! This is serious business!

It's OK. I'll let myself out.
<Rolls 18 for a dramatic exit. Ends up in a broom closet>

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Purple Snit

The problem is players on the forums who insist it HAS TO BE complicated - what's realistic strength for a "normal" human; what are "realistic" limits on skills; how hard should it really be to hit location 'x'. Honestly, most players will never need to know or use that level of detail. And it puts people off (and not just new players...). It's supposed to be fun, not work.

Benchmarking against reality and ensuring that the expected outcomes from using GURPS rules match what you'd expect from reality is what makes GURPS simpler to use with new players (or just players who don't care to learn rules) than any other RPG.

The players just make decisions based on what they'd do if they were really the character whose role they are taking on. They don't have to know any gamist terms, exploits that give bonuses or optimized DPS builds. They just describe what they do and because GURPS rules are meant to reflect reality, not be a game-mechanical construct unconnected to anything else, the GM can simply translate that into GURPS without the players ever needing to care about the mechanics.

That never worked too well in D&D or, indeed, any other RPG I've tried, because the mechanics were the whole point of the game and didn't really support making decisions based on what a person would really do in the situation.