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Old 04-01-2020, 05:07 PM   #11
Icelander
 
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

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That is the reserves.
Active, for me, was two years sea duty and three years shore rotation. But that is different for every MOS. Knew electricians that were five sea and four shore. Poor kid was on the same ship for five years with a succession of bad COs.
I see.

I somehow thought that in the Reserve, people affiliated with a unit with a drilling station within a certain distance from their homes and at least generally wouldn't be assigned to a unit located thousands of miles away.

So, if someone has an MOS which seems to be confined mostly to three units in the USMCR; i.e. the 3rd FORECON in Mobile, Alabama, 4th FORECON in California and Hawai, and 4th Reconnaissance Battalion with HQ in San Antonio (units in Texas, New Mexico, Georgia, Louisiana and Illinois); wouldn't they have a pretty good chance at staying with the reserve units within driving distance of their homes?

Say, for someone living in Louisiana?

If not, aside from one rotation with 4th Recon Bn and one with 3rd FORECON, what does the USMC Reserve do with a prior active duty Recon Marine (0321) who wants to serve as a reserve Recon Marine for as long as he fulfils the physical requirements?
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:12 PM   #12
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Default 1SG to Master Gunnery Sergeant Promotion

If someone was a First Sergeant (E-8) at the End of Active Obligated Service in the USMC and his last duty as as the SNCO Inspector-Instructor (i.e. active duty Marine functioning as a staff and training cadre) of a Reserve unit, is there any way for that Marine to affiliate with that specific unit* for his Reserve service?

Specifically, there is only the one First Sergeant billet at that unit, but there is a Master Gunnery Sergeant billet as the Operations Chief of the company, which, unlike the First Sergeant billet, is held by a reservist.

Could our hypothetical former Inspector-Instructor voluntarily laterally move to the other SNCO career path, i.e. pursue potential promotion to Master Gunnery Sergeant from First Sergeant, when he signed up for the USMC-R?

That is, can he try to become the Operations Chief of the same unit he was the Inspector-Instructor First Sergeant of before?

I assume that this would mean assignment somewhere else as a reservist for a rotation or two, maybe even as a Master Sergeant instead of a First Sergeant. If it means extra courses or schools, our NPC is fine with doing them as a reservist, even to the point of having to work full time at it for a while.

I realize that under ordinary circumstances, there's not much point to doing this, but our NPC has gotten a very good civilian job in the area and has been specifically asked to try to get that exact position in 3rd FORECON, in order to be in a position to scout talent among the Marine reservists in that unit, so that his employer can hire men with very specific talents, to covertly fight supernatural threats.

*3rd FORECON again, because the geographic location for it means that a lot of my NPCs will be associated with it.
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Old 04-02-2020, 06:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

Everything is maybe and needs of the Corps.
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

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Everything is maybe and needs of the Corps.
Yes, but can anyone give me guidelines whether it's as plausible as an O-3 Chaplain becoming a platoon leader of Recon Marines or if it's actually something that might reasonably happen?

Has anyone ever heard of a First Sergeant changing his career path and being promoted to Master Gunnery Sergeant instead of Sergeant-Major?

Do Marines in rare MOS-es who want to join the USMCR have a decent chance of being able to affiliate with the Reserve unit that is closest to their home of record that has those MOS-es?

Does the Primary MOS of a Recon Marine change at any enlisted rank? I.e., is there a rank at which he attends a senior NCO course and is after that assigned some kind of SNCO MOS, which renders his previous MOS irrelevant?
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

Nahh, if Chaplain leads platoon only one thing to say, "Jesus is coming soon!" That won't happen.
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

No, Chaplains will never lead combat troops (at all, period). If the Chaplain is the highest ranking surviving officer, command would instead devolve to the next highest rank line officer or, if there are none capable of leading, the highest ranked NCO of a combat MOS. Now, the NCO cannot technically give orders to the Chaplain, but they can ignore any orders by the Chaplain related to combat, so only a complete moron of an officer would ignore an NCO who was in command of a combat unit.

Now, there is possible that a Chaplain could be attached to a support company and gains command because it is a non-compete unit. If that support company becomes trapped behind combat lines, without any line officers or combat NCOs, they will do the best that they can with what they have. In general, their only objective would be to find safety behind allied lines or, failing that, to make for a neutral border. If they end up facing enemy troops, they would be expected to surrender unless they could reasonably capture their enemies (such as the support company coming upon an enemy support squad).

Ironically, I knew a pagan Chaplain while I was in the Navy who was given a star as the religious symbol that looked identical to a command star. It might be hypothetically possible that, during an emergency, the enlisted would default to following the orders of any with that symbol, but it would only be until the emergency ended. The military would never give formal command of a combat unit to a Chaplain though, and they would probably sweep incidents of emergency command under the rug unless something really bad or really good occurred.

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Old 04-02-2020, 09:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

I think the only unit I could command would be musicians, and that's only if their O's were dead.
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Old 04-02-2020, 10:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

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Originally Posted by revshafer View Post
Nahh, if Chaplain leads platoon only one thing to say, "Jesus is coming soon!" That won't happen.
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
No, Chaplains will never lead combat troops (at all, period). If the Chaplain is the highest ranking surviving officer, command would instead devolve to the next highest rank line officer or, if there are none capable of leading, the highest ranked NCO of a combat MOS. Now, the NCO cannot technically give orders to the Chaplain, but they can ignore any orders by the Chaplain related to combat, so only a complete moron of an officer would ignore an NCO who was in command of a combat unit.

Now, there is possible that a Chaplain could be attached to a support company and gains command because it is a non-compete unit. If that support company becomes trapped behind combat lines, without any line officers or combat NCOs, they will do the best that they can with what they have. In general, their only objective would be to find safety behind allied lines or, failing that, to make for a neutral border. If they end up facing enemy troops, they would be expected to surrender unless they could reasonably capture their enemies (such as the support company coming upon an enemy support squad).

Ironically, I knew a pagan Chaplain while I was in the Navy who was given a star as the religious symbol that looked identical to a command star. It might be hypothetically possible that, during an emergency, the enlisted would default to following the orders of any with that symbol, but it would only be until the emergency ended. The military would never give formal command of a combat unit to a Chaplain though, and they would probably sweep incidents of emergency command under the rug unless something really bad or really good occurred.
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I think the only unit I could command would be musicians, and that's only if their O's were dead.
If you read the post above, the example of 'Chaplain becoming the platoon leader of Recon Marines' was an example of something that would not reasonably happen.

I was looking for guidelines on where on the plausibility/possibility scale a First Sergeant changing his SNCO career path and pursuing a Mastery Gunnery Sergeant billet (instead of SGM which would naturally result from a promotion from 1SG) would fall; from 'Chaplain command of Recon platoon' to 'something reasonably likely'.
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: USMC Minutiae for Marine Character Background

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I have one pretty general question, first, which is about unit attachments and how much Marines tend to move around between units. Is it common for someone to spend most or all of his career in a given battalion or regiment, like in the British Army?
It depends. Depending on MOS you might move around a fair bit. Also, the USMC expanded massively during WW2, from a skeleton force prior to WW2, so that might be another reason to move around.

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First of all, if someone from Texas joined the USMC right after Pearl Harbor and ended up a rifleman, what were the most likely units he would be posted to?
IIRC, before and during WW2 the Marines didn't have regional or reserve units. Recruits were shipped from around the country to just a few training bases.

Unless you want your ex-Marine to have a somewhat unusual background - like doing embassy guard duty in some neutral country - it's most likely that an early war Marine would end up on Guadalcanal. OOB here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...rder_of_battle

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My background works if he could plausibly have served in any of the nine numbered battalions under the 1st, 5th or 7th Marine Regiments, but I'd like to select one with evocative historical episodes attached, cool nickname, motto or something like that.
The 1st Marine Division "The Old Breed" is legendary due to its Pacific service. If you want to get even cooler, choose service with 1st Battalion, 7th Marines during the early fight on Guadalcanal. There's plenty of info about their service.

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I know there is an entire system for East and West Coast Marines, as regards training, at least, but I'm not sure how things worked during all historical periods.
Almost none during WW2. The big difference in Marine training was when it happened rather than where it happened. Early war training wasn't nearly as organized or as good as late war training. I'm not sure that the situation was in early 1942, but it's likely that training would have been massively speeded up and slightly curtailed. Training with state-of-the-art weapons would have been very limited.

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Second, how unusual would it be for a 31-year-old who had been about four years out of the Marines to enlist again as soon as Korea started?
Absolutely normal. Plenty of discharged WW2 vets joined up for Korea. As long as they had good records the military was happy to have them back.

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Third, how much training would someone who had been at Guadalcanal, New Britain, Peleliu and Okinawa 5-8 years before be subjected to before being sent to Korea in 1950?
Possibly just a refresher course, unless there had been serious changes in their MOS in the meantime. A Marine infantry NCO with a long combat record might have have been shipped to Japan or Korea almost immediately. The only delays would be the Marine Corps figuring out where a senior NCO would be most useful, cutting orders to get him there, and then shipping him out.

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Fourth, if we assume that John McBride was not interested in a military career, but felt that it was his duty to fight on the front lines when his country was at war, and that he was a competent, steady, serious and fearless man who felt a strong sense of responsibility toward his fellow Marines, what might his rank plausibly have been at the end of WWII?
Anything from Private (e.g., like Eugene Sledge, author of "With the Old Breed") to senior NCO (e.g., Gunnery Sergeant), based on MOS, command ability, battlefield promotions, decorations, and raw luck. Before WW2, rank was hard to come by. During WW2, promotions could come fast due to battle casualties. While I don't believe that the Marines promoted their personnel quite as aggressively as the Army and Air Force did, battlefield promotions were commonplace. Keep in mind that a Marine who survived Guadalcanal intact was probably going to be promoted as the Corps expanded in the later years of the war. They would have been rotated stateside, given NCO training, and then been assigned to a new unit. Unless he was a complete screw-up, he's going to be at least a Lance Corporal (E-3), more likely a Sergeant (E-5). Given brains, skill, good behavior, and a bit of luck, he might end up as a more senior NCO or a junior officer (e.g., Lieutenant or Captain).

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Fifth, how likely is it that John McBride might be able to re-enlist for the Marine Corps and expect a posting to his old unit, which had been disbanded after WWII and was being re-activated at the time?
Possible, but not necessarily likely. Assuming that he had friends in the service who could pull a few strings when he reenlisted, he could easily have ended up in the same Regiment, although remaining in the same Battalion would be less likely. Given that reenlistment probably comes with a promotion, there's almost no chance that he'd be assigned to exactly the same subordinate unit.

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Sixth, how long would he have served on his second enlistment and at what rank is he likely to have separated from active duty after the Korean War?
Again, an open-ended question based on luck, behavior, and a number of other factors.

During the first year of the Korean War, nobody was going home unless they were wounded or had some other very good reason. After that, the policy was to rotate the troops out of the fighting based on a "points" system. Someone who survived 1950-51 was likely to have enough "points" to be rotated to a post in Japan or the U.S. by 1952-53, although they might not have necessarily been discharged until the end of the war.

As for rank, he could have gotten busted back down to private due to some serious screw up or he could have ended up with a battlefield promotion to Lieutenant or even Captain. If he survived the Chosin Reservoir campaign there was plenty of opportunity for him to rise quickly in rank.

Finally, keep in mind that after Korea, assuming that he wasn't psychologically and physically too beaten down to continue serving, that McBride might have felt a duty to keep serving in the Marine reserves due to the perceived threat of Communism during the Cold War. In that case, assuming he was still an NCO, he might end up with as high a rank as a Marine reservist NCO is likely to have (Gunnery or First Sergeant). If he was an officer, rank wouldn't be as easy to come by - he'd probably retire as a Major or Lt. Colonel.

As long as he wasn't a complete screw-up, high level decorations (i.e., Navy Cross or Medal of Honor) are also likely to extend his career. The military likes to keep its heroes in uniform.

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Old 04-02-2020, 10:49 PM   #20
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Default John McBride Background

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Unless you want your ex-Marine to have a somewhat unusual background - like doing embassy guard duty in some neutral country - it's most likely that an early war Marine would end up on Guadalcanal. OOB here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...rder_of_battle
The background I'm looking for is combat arms and an unusally high number of days in combat. McBride went right to Guadalcanal after boot camp and took part in the island jumping one battle after another.

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Anything from Private (e.g., like Eugene Sledge, author of "With the Old Breed") to senior NCO (e.g., Gunnery Sergeant), based on MOS, command ability, battlefield promotions, decorations, and raw luck. Before WW2, rank was hard to come by. During WW2, promotions could come fast due to battle casualties. While I don't believe that the Marines promoted their personnel quite as aggressively as the Army and Air Force did, battlefield promotions were commonplace.
Well, as John McBride was barely literate when he joined the Marines and he wanted a combat assignment, I imagine he was a rifleman. I suppose machine gunner is possible, he was tall and strong.

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Possible, but not necessarily likely. Assuming that he had friends in the service who could pull a few strings when he reenlisted, he could easily have ended up in the same Regiment, although remaining in the same Battalion would be less likely. Given that reenlistment probably comes with a promotion, there's almost no chance that he'd be assigned to exactly the same subordinate unit.
Well, the surviving members of his squad would be civilians or senior NCOs by now anyway. I imagined he might have a sentimental attachment to some unit (Battalion? Regiment?) but perhaps that's more of a British thing and the USMC doesn't really foster identification with units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Again, an open-ended question based on luck, behavior, and a number of other factors.

During the first year of the Korean War, nobody was going home unless they were wounded or had some other very good reason. After that, the policy was to rotate the troops out of the fighting based on a "points" system. Someone who survived 1950-51 was likely to have enough "points" to be rotated to a post in Japan or the U.S. by 1952-53, although they might not have necessarily been discharged until the end of the war.
Was it mandatory to be rotated out of combat?

John McBride would have been very opposed to leaving 'his' boys behind while he rotated somewhere safe.

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As for rank, he could have gotten busted back down to private due to some serious screw up or he could have ended up with a battlefield promotion to Lieutenant or even Captain. If he survived the Chosin Reservoir campaign there was plenty of opportunity for him to rise quickly in rank.
McBride did survive Chosin. As for battlefield promotions, McBride was hardly the most polished Marine. He never finished high school and before WWII, he was a roughneck in the Texas oil fields.

Between wars, McBride was a Deputy at his local Chambers County Sheriff's Office, where he acquired enough reading and writing to fill out basic reports tolerably, but while McBride came to value education and instill respect for it in his children, he never became what you might call bookish. McBride was a competent, capable man, but to anyone with even a hint of classism, he exemplified the ideal of the non-comissioned officer.

Depending on how much impact his apparent social status had, by pure merit, McBride would deserve a battlefield commission. Phlegmatic, practical, responsible, disciplined and too concerned with duty to display any fear. I imagine that McBride was commanding a platoon as a Staff or Gunnery Sergeant during Chosin, in the absence of an officer. Whether that translated into rank, however, I don't know.

It wouldn't do any damage to the imagine of the character if it did, but would accepting a battlefield commissioned mean accepting any kind of service obligation during peacetime? McBride had already decided, during his time as a Sheriff's Deputy between the wars, that he was going to make law enforcement a career. He won't accept any position in a peacetime Army, he sees his duty as being 'for the duration' and no longer.

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Finally, keep in mind that after Korea, assuming that he wasn't psychologically and physically too beaten down to continue serving, that McBride might have felt a duty to keep serving in the Marine reserves due to the perceived threat of Communism during the Cold War. In that case, assuming he was still an NCO, he might end up with as high a rank as a Marine reservist NCO is likely to have (Gunnery or First Sergeant). If he was an officer, rank wouldn't be as easy to come by - he'd probably retire as a Major or Lt. Colonel.

As long as he wasn't a complete screw-up, high level decorations (i.e., Navy Cross or Medal of Honor) are also likely to extend his career. The military likes to keep its heroes in uniform.
McBride might well have earned decorations in either or both wars. And he certainly wasn't too beat down to continue serving, as he became a Texas Ranger after the war. Even after he retired, a PC met him in his mid-sixties, commanding a team of ex-military bodyguards in Africa. The old guy in the Stetson was still the toughest guy on the field.

I'm not sure whether he should have been a reservist. I guess he could have, but as long as there was no ongoing war, McBride may have felt that his duties lay in his law enforcement work, first as a TxDPS Highway patrolman and the later as a Texas Ranger. By the time Korea ended, McBride was 35 and had three children, in addition to a nephew he was raising after the death of his sister. In the next few years, he added two more kids.
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