Military Cybershells - just how ubiquitous are they?

[RogerBW]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

The politics of not looking like you're preparing for trouble dictate sending biologicals. Things like a RATS have a Monstrous appearance and the reaction penlaties that go with it for a reason.

And it gives the poor meatheads something to do to let them feel useful.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

For some reason I forgot that not only RATS, but even most humanoid military shells are abominated in the civilised world (Social Stigma: Monster).

It's not really Social Stigma: Monster, it's Social Stigma: walking around in a tank. Which is fine when a tank is appropriate, but does poorly in polite society.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's not really Social Stigma: Monster, it's Social Stigma: walking around in a tank. Which is fine when a tank is appropriate, but does poorly in polite society.

On one hand, I agree that the M-word is somewhat misleading. On the other, it seems pretty close given the reaction the things cause:

Originally Posted by CT42

Social Stigma (Monster) for
heavily armed military cybershells, which are seen as danger-
ous death machines in most places (and which tend to be
treated warily even by human soldiers on the same side).

That doesn't seem to describe the way modern people treat tanks: while seeing a tank in a city (except during a parade) does give the idea that the government decided to go all Tiananmen Square / White House on its citizens, I've never heard of people being wary of friendly tanks any more than of other similarly large vehicles.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

That doesn't seem to describe the way modern people treat tanks: while seeing a tank in a city (except during a parade) does give the idea that the government decided to go all Tiananmen Square / White House on its citizens, I've never heard of people being wary of friendly tanks any more than of other similarly large vehicles.

People are usually pretty wary of unexpected tanks showing up. They're also legitimately concerned about being mashed by one. It could be that military cybershells have some sort of 'monster' connotation separate from being military hardware in a place they don't belong, but there's no obvious reason they would.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

People are usually pretty wary of unexpected tanks showing up. They're also legitimately concerned about being mashed by one. It could be that military cybershells have some sort of 'monster' connotation separate from being military hardware in a place they don't belong, but there's no obvious reason they would.

I wouldn't count on being mashed by an MCS-52. Nor would I call an allied MCS 'unexpected' by the soldier under most circumstances.

This might be one of those cultural nuances, like the fear/hatred of bioshells in the EU/India/Caliphate, EIs/Rogues almost everywhere, or Shadows in the Caliphate once again. Except much more common in the world as a whole.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

On one hand, I agree that the M-word is somewhat misleading. On the other, it seems pretty close given the reaction the things cause:
That doesn't seem to describe the way modern people treat tanks: while seeing a tank in a city (except during a parade) does give the idea that the government decided to go all Tiananmen Square / White House on its citizens, I've never heard of people being wary of friendly tanks any more than of other similarly large vehicles.

It may have to do with the fear of being targeted by the automated defenses that are not yet common on vehicles that can enter civilian spaces.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I wouldn't count on being mashed by an MCS-52. Nor would I call an allied MCS 'unexpected' by the soldier under most circumstances.

Reaction modifiers aren't just for combat (in fact, they frequently aren't relevant in combat; you probably care more about whether your buddy is competent with a gun than whether he's pretty or ugly), and a RATS wandering about in a social scene isn't going to get good reactions. In any case, it could be that the intent is that there's a special horror about military cybershells, but it's not obvious that that's the case.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

It's not either/or: Vicky's done a good job of showing how bioroid mooks are cheaper than mookbots, and I've tried to show they are more secure/reliable.

"cheaper" reflects their physical inferiority and that they are more self-willed is a break even kind of thing.

[Keiko]

Have the THS authors ever made any statements about the biotech vs hardtech issue one way or the other?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Reaction modifiers aren't just for combat (in fact, they frequently aren't relevant in combat; you probably care more about whether your buddy is competent with a gun than whether he's pretty or ugly), and a RATS wandering about in a social scene isn't going to get good reactions. In any case, it could be that the intent is that there's a special horror about military cybershells, but it's not obvious that that's the case.

From a purely pragmatic PoV, I understand. However, sapient minds are not purely pragmatic. Judging by the fluff text (not just the presence of the trait), there is some sort of special horror about military cybershells - why else would even allied soldiers be leery of their presence?

I wish either the GM or I recalled this entry back on the last session. Oh well.