Production Values

[David Johansen]

I've been thinking about the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying game. The production values are top notch, no question about it. The game is well designed. The art is beautiful. The cardstock is thick and heavy.

So here's the question: would you prefer a bit lower production values in exchange for more bang for your buck?

Say, black and white artwork in the books but more content, including the companion in the box for example. Sheets of uncut cardboard heroes but more of them and more variety, (don't kid yourself I'd pay for a box with a more complete set of the current ones), perhaps another sheet of less beautifully rendered battle maps and maybe a world map and a brief setting guide.

So, more bang for your buck or beautiful top notch everything?

[Refplace]

For me content is king.
But for sale son a store shelf? The Art is a big part of the sale.
Its not just the eye catcher either. Quality Art implies quality with the rest of the product,

[AlexanderHowl]

I have to agree that I am not going to shell out money for a system that looks like it was done by amateurs. There are thousands of tabletop games, some of them quite good, and quality of the product matters. In addition, I prefer hardback books because I put my books through a lot of use.

[RyanW]

Personally, I like the black and white art found in most GURPS pdfs. I took to gaming when GURPS art meant Dan Smith.

[David Johansen]

None of this is all or nothing. I'm not suggesting the game should have been printed on newsprint and rolled up in a plastic bag or anything. Though that might be a nifty way to do a novelty game.

But you could put a lot more stuff in the box for a lower price, I'm not sure how it compares these days. I do know that labour is the number one cost for just about any product, so it might be a moot point.

Personally, beautiful, full colour covers are a must for production photos, as is a full colour picture on a GM screen if you want to sell a GM screen. But interior colour art doesn't win out over more content in a boxed set. Box heft is also an issue when people purchase games. And, while I really like the heavy duty Cardboard Heroes, I'd want a wider range of figures in the box and wouldn't mind sticking them on some heavier cardstock myself if I could have more characters, orcs, goblins, dragons, and giants in there. Again, more stuff in the production shot is a good thing.

I should also be clear that I'm not criticising SJG. The DFRPG boxed set is great and I'm sure they asked all these questions before they started the kick starter. I'm just curious what other people here think about production values because production costs are listed as a major factor in the product's failure.

[mhd]

I actually wouldn't consider contemporary art/layout "top notch". It's better than pre-takeover Chaosium stuff, probably a bit below Green Ronin (who have the same issue with boring/repetitive layout, but have better art on average).

And I actually preferred the old sidebars. My favorite layout/art style would probably be the really old one, not the weird Compendium-era phase where they went a bit overboard with "look what my DTP software can do/what fonts I've got".

So for me a b/w product would mean no noticeable reduction in quality. What stays with me is the quality of the organization and editing.

[DouglasCole]

Would anyone be interested in a breakdown of the overt, non-overhead costs to make a game? I'd miss some, but I can take a hack at it. It wouldn't be centered on SJG, since I don't have visibility to their costs, but it might show where things get spendy.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Would anyone be interested in a breakdown of the overt, non-overhead costs to make a game? I'd miss some, but I can take a hack at it. It wouldn't be centered on SJG, since I don't have visibility to their costs, but it might show where things get spendy.

Certainly! Any insight helps

[Maz]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Would anyone be interested in a breakdown of the overt, non-overhead costs to make a game? I'd miss some, but I can take a hack at it. It wouldn't be centered on SJG, since I don't have visibility to their costs, but it might show where things get spendy.

That would be most interesting.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

So here's the question: would you prefer a bit lower production values in exchange for more bang for your buck?

Thing is, at least some of those production values are more bang for my buck. The heavy GM screen stands up much better than one made of thin cardstock. I see value in die-cut cardboard heroes because I can't cut them out wrong, and the plastic stands and thicker cardboard make them much more stable and less prone to getting knocked over in a sudden draft or if I bump the table. Higher-grade paper and binding mean a more durable product at the gaming table, where I don't have to worry about pages falling out or ink smearing. The only play this leaves for "lower production values" is maybe b&w artwork, which certainly costs less, but I'm willing to pay the extra for color.