02-22-2018, 11:15 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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To be more precise, it is not exactly 4, because the average 3d6 result varies between 10 and 11 and, so, the exact average margin of success would vary between 3 and 4. But I think that Tomsdad noted something important about your character. It is a bit strange that a strongman competitor only has Attribute+0 to his skill. Unless he didn't trained anymore for a very long time, of course, in which case it would perfectly make sense: skills, especially competitive one, do decrease rapidly without daily training. |
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02-22-2018, 11:18 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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02-22-2018, 11:30 AM | #23 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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Part of the reason we were looking into this is the GM was thinking on doing one off sessions for our characters that revolved around the pivot point event that caused then to join the Bureau. She is also doing a session 0 at the end of the academy to set the general feel for the game (an giving everyone the template). The actual session 1 will be about 3 and a half years later, after they have had time to establish themselves before the proverbial kaka hit the air distribution system. PC 1 will probably be during/after a competition, some rolls there and seeing how he did sets frame of mind and all, and the loss of his wife shortly there after. PC 2 will possibly be at a tournament and his trigger and PC 3...don't know. That player hasn't talked too much about the characters trigger. |
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02-22-2018, 12:27 PM | #24 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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When I lost my corporate job to downsizing, back in 2002, they put me through a job search training program, in which I learned about the eight career anchors. One of them was managerial competence, which meant that you valued being a boss and wanted to do an effective job at it. Another was technical competence, which meant that you valued doing a skilled task involving things or ideas. For the latter orientation, managing people was tedious drudgery that you had to put up with to get certain real jobs done. On one hand, the fact that most organizations are managed by the former type means that the reward and promotion structure for the latter type consistently seeks to motivate them by promising to let them manage people. On the other hand, there apparently is a process by which technical competence types do end up as managers at some level.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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02-23-2018, 12:01 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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OK so that makes more sense. he had the raw stats to potentially excel at this competition, but not the training to truly shine at the top level. Even when it was effective skill 16 at +2 that's not (IMO) a huge world championship final skill, but ST/HT/Will 14 would allow you to muscle it (ahem sorry) to maybe get to that level of competition. As an aside I was thinking about how you could actually do this kind of competition in GURPS, if the competition was what the game was concentrating on. For me one big problem is GURPS lifting is very either/or, in that you either lifting with ST or ST with Skill as often as you like, or using EE burning an FP each time. Which is fine for general lifting stuff while adventuring. I'd probably use the AP system in some way to model doing lifts, runs & throws in a time event and head to head. You could also link the amount of penalty you take on an EE lift to how many AP you spend instead of it being a straight 1FP cost. You watch these compensations and I think short and long term fatigue plays a big role. Sorry not directly relevant to your game, just got thinking about it as this is a subject that comes up every so often here either directly or tangentially! |
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02-23-2018, 01:18 AM | #26 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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And that all we were thinking. Not a top competitor (yet), but definitely one to look out for in the coming years (had tragedy not struck). Quote:
AFAIK, there is no real way to model that in GURPS, the success but...uh-oh!/failure with silver lining concept. I know other game systems have it: Shadowrun the Glitch, FFG Star Wars/Genesis does as well among others. This could model something like this well (at least in that respect) Perhaps a variable fatigue option? Take this lift. If just using FP and assuming he has about 16, that whole lift would have to put him the below 0 to represent that. Assuming the initial lift cost him about 8 FP and would cast him that per sec and a 2 sec hold is what would be needed (I didn't time it in the video, just a place holder) that whole lift would have caused him 8 HP of damage. Assuming he has about 14-16 HP this would count as a Major Wound, so the massive nose bleed and passing out after is well within the possibilities I guess. My only quandary about this is, once he hit 1/3 FP, his ST would have been halved, effectively ending the lift right there. But how to model the variable FP cost? Is there something in the rules to warrant an 8 FP cost action like this? Not that skilled with the system yet, just brainstorming. |
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02-23-2018, 02:35 AM | #27 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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First, Eddie Hall wasn't at all able to throw the weight. GURPS two-handed lift assumes that you are able to do it, and that you are even able to harm a foe with it. Second he did it only once (and even risked his life). GURPS two-handed lift assumes that you can do it several times in a raw, without the least problem. So that kind of deadlift doesn't correspond to GURPS two-handed lift. In my humble opinion, snatch does much more. Jareth's formula (BL x 12) does fit better to dead lift. Furthermore, Eddie Hall probably has ST 15 (he is definitely amazing) plus one or two level of Lifting Strength, plus a Lifting skill level of 20 or higher. Add to that that he used FP, so the Extra Effort rule (which give +10% per -1 to the skill rather than +5% per point of margin of success) and you go much closer from that record. |
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02-23-2018, 03:59 AM | #28 | ||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Would like some help with our group
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Ah I when I say AP system I thinking "Last Gasp" from Pyramid 3-44 by Douglas Cole. AP= Action point is basically a subsystem of FP that is more closely and more immediately managed. The article also goes into more detail about short and long term fatigue leveraging AP and FP. I love it, but it is more detail! Quote:
The variable option is what I was thinking about when it came to spending different amounts of AP. However unless you made such a lift a series of actions the Last gasp system wouldn't work for progressingly exhausting yourself during one lift. However you could make it an extended lifting action where you were amassing successes over a series of rolls were you where sping AP (and possibly FP) to get the required total. Burn enough FP and you will end up like Hall. Quote:
One other build variable, I'd probably also split Arm and leg ST for some lifts that are more concentrated on them. For instance Dead lift to an extent and definately Squat, I'd say leg ST is predominant, stuff like bench press I say was arm ST. Core strength being pretty much involved in all but the most isolated single limb feats but that's not really GURPS relevant as Leg and Arm ST factor core strength in them. And TBH for complex compound lifts I might well spilt the lift into sections with a roll each where for separate element one based on legs, and another arms. Of course if there's no variation it would be kind of irrelevant, but in reality some competitors builds and individual strengths do vary in this. (but again I'd only go into this level of detail if I was actually running a WSM '18 campaign!) Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-23-2018 at 04:39 AM. |
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02-23-2018, 04:46 AM | #29 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Would like some help with our group
Thank you very much
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If you successfully make your Will roll at a threshold (4/5, 3/5, 2/5, etc.) you may stay the effects of the ability loss for a time, however doing this causes you 1 HP of damage as you push yourself beyond your limits. Once you fail a Will roll or the turn after you are no longer spending FP, you immediately take all accrued penalties. I think that this could possibly model the effects Eddie Hall suffered with the blood gushing during the lift and passing out right after. Thoughts? Quote:
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02-23-2018, 05:04 AM | #30 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Would like some help with our group
No worries
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Or if I was doing this as a series of rolls for one lift I'd also use the "hitting the wall" rules. This way if you are make the hitting the wall roll for every loss of FP and you were doing something where you were burning through your FP quickly even though HT+5 + training bonus means the first few you'll be fine, but dig really deep into your FPs and build that HT penalty and you increase the chances of losing HP. This raises a point that someone made about this subject in a past thread. Some lifting equipment's benefit might be better modelled by effecting these rolls or mitigating the effect of critical failures, rather than straight bonuses to lifting. Quote:
This is personal taste, POV, game and genre driven though! Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-24-2018 at 02:47 AM. |
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