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Old 02-21-2018, 08:21 PM   #21
tanksoldier
 
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Indeed, making Computer Operation a prerequisite for Research/TL8+ would be the better idea, in my humble opinion, because Research TL8+ mainly uses computer (if not exclusively).
I think a computer illiterate researcher in TL8 would function at TL7.

Today you still could go to a library and do hard copy research if you had to.

In a few years that probably won’t be the case.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
I think a computer illiterate researcher in TL8 would function at TL7.

Today you still could go to a library and do hard copy research if you had to.

In a few years that probably won’t be the case.
It already began ... for a long time. Of course, libraries still have paper books but even 25 years ago, when I was at philosophy university, we had to search on a computer to find the books we needed.

If once exactly knows the books he wants, he can find them without any help (thanks to the Dewey Decimal Classification). But as soon as he makes a research on a given topic (like "vampires", for instance), he will have to sit in front of a computer and to enter the good keywords before obtaining those books ("vampire", "novel", "myth", "history", "zoology", "medicine" and so on).

Sure, that's not a hard computer operation. But someone who is used to make computer researches will still have an edge.

Last edited by Gollum; 02-22-2018 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

About that, after thinking a bit more, I believe that the Complementary Skills rule is really the best one to use. Just because it gives an edge to someone who is very good at Computer Operation.

The Prerequisites rule ("To study the advanced skill, you must have at least one point in the prerequisite skill.") is fine too, but it doesn't make any difference between someone with Computer Operation (IQ+0)-10 and someone with Computer Operation (IQ+8)-18. While the Complementary Skills rule does: the one with Computer (IQ+8)-18 will get the +1 (or the +2) much more often. And someone who lacks Computer Operation will often get a penalty, which is quite realistic: those who don't know how to enter keywords on a searching engine (surprisingly, a lot of people insist on typing complete sentences rather than keywords) often have problems to find what they want.

Last edited by Gollum; 02-22-2018 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
It wouldn't be utter bunk to summarize all this as IQ +1d (No Per or Will bonus, -50%; Only with tasks a computer could help with, -40%) [14].
Am I not understanding how to calculate the value of +1d, or should that be 7 points, rather than 14?
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Am I not understanding how to calculate the value of +1d, or should that be 7 points, rather than 14?
That would be right, if not for the -80% max discount.
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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That would be right, if not for the -80% max discount.
Correct. It's an option for the GM to allow deeper discounts on really hopelessly limited traits, mostly to turn them into perks, but for something this useful, I'd enforce the -80% cutoff.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:03 AM   #27
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

Computer Operation lets you "call up data, run programs, play games, etc". That might have been a skill 30 years ago, but with our current computers that feels like a skill to tie your shoelaces.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Not having Research/TL8 is more of a limitation than any other single factor. The tricks of verifying information found online, composing good search queries, etc. probably are prerequisites for the benefits I stated. I'm not sure how linked bonus size is to Research skill level, though. I'd probably just retcon what I said from "Computer Operation as a complimentary skill" to "Research as a complimentary skill" and note that Computer Operation is a prerequisite for Research/TL8+.
The Internet radically changed Research, which I've done for a living. I remember back in the 20th century, traveling to a number of huge libraries checking dusty, almost forgotten volumes to put together obscure information for a textbook a professor was writing. (She wanted facts on 50 people that no reader would know).

Nowadays, it's hard to find information that's not already on the Internet. A few years ago in the 21st century, I published a summary of 10 years of court cases and the research only took me two or three hours. In the late 20th century, it could have taken me two or three days.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

The vast majority of academic journals are going to have content accessible only through the internet for most university libraries (JSTOR possesses the contents of 2400 journals). If you want to do serious academic research, you need to have access to a service similar to JSTOR, which means using the internet from a university library.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:40 AM   #30
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Default Re: What does a computer really do for you?

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Originally Posted by Bengt View Post
Computer Operation lets you "call up data, run programs, play games, etc". That might have been a skill 30 years ago, but with our current computers that feels like a skill to tie your shoelaces.
Not quite. It just means those who grew up with computers probably have at least one point invested in the skill and are using programs that are 'user friendly' and thus facilitate a bonus to their usage.

However, a lot of computer usage (installing programs, uninstalling programs, troubleshooting programs, etc) are still very much skill uses that are difficult.

Take for example my Mother, someone who refuses to try to learn how to operate a computer. She turn it on, open Chrome, navigate to Facebook and her gmail account reliably, but beyond this and you've lost her. Despite having watched a handful of movies and read a handful of books on her computer, she still has to ask me to start movies and open her books. Because this isn't a daily usage that she's memorized.


Basically it's a skill because we as a culture are still at the point that it's not something everyone simply does. Also, it's occasionally fun to play characters in modern games who can't use computers and find the adventure 'stymied' when the 'techie' is unavailable. Conversely failing to tie one's shoes doesn't often lead to or involve adventure.

Last edited by evileeyore; 02-22-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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