Not sure if this is allowed

[Iceman_mat]

Hey Guys n girls

A question came up during the play of the regular munchkin (vanallia, no expansions) that I had to create an account just to post this as it is a rare happen stance that seems to show why this game is so good.

Esscentially the scenario was between 3 players and we did check previous forum posts but i'll mention them as I go along and keep in mind that this did generate multiple debates and forum checks :D

The scenario was as follows

Player 1 opens the door and receives an Elf class card, he then decides to play the stone golem to fight (looking for trouble) and uses the kneepads of allure to have Player 2 assist him

Player 3 seeing that they are winning plays the mate card adding another monster to the fight.

(First debate)

Player 2 then plays the transferal potion on the two monsters transfering them to player 3. This was debated as player 1 said that since he is using the kneepads, makes the combat choices thus decided to run however the arguement made was that the potion was played before the run and thus it was now transfersed (keeping in mind that all players had a bias at this point).

The debate was agreed finally that the monster could transfer as player 2 was originally trying to assist player 1 as defined by the knee pad card.

(Second debate multiple)

Player 3 then asks player 2 to assist him as their power level matches the two golems.

This is allowed eventually on an agreement similar (after much debate) to a ruling in the FAQ that states

Q. If I use Transferral Potion to steal someone else's fight, can I then use cards or abilities, such as Magic Lamp, that are usable only on my turn?

A. No. It's not your turn. The card says the original player "resumes his turn," but that doesn't mean it isn't his turn at that moment, just that you've interrupted the sequence of events on his turn.

also a forum tip of

Originally Posted by smoothhands
So just to be sure: if two people are fighting a monster together, and Player A (original person fighting the monster) uses it on Player B (the helper), does the combat shift to Player B with Player A "kicked out" of the battle, i.e. not automatically helping B?

Yes, that's the case.

Player 2 then charms the mate as it is stated on the card itself that he only requires 3 cards and to be in A battle. (second debate)

The monsters are defeated and the tresure split. Player 1 then resumes his turn.

(Third debate)

Player 1 then raises the question if he can now bring in another monster as he had placed the original monster that was transfered. The game had to end at this point due to circumstance and was not resolved however did raise an interesting point which was discussed with the following view points. -

Player 1 - How is player two able to assist player 3 in the first place if he is currently in a battle with player 2 (whaaa? hehe). Also the prementioned running away. Can the transfer potion be played? As well as can he now play another monster (much debate)

Player 2 - Player 1 can not play another monster card as the fight had occured and was transfered mid fight even though the monster is now gone / dead. The transfer potion can be played.

Player 3 - Transfer potion can be played, charm is ok, player 1 can play another monster card as the sequence of looking for trouble has not been completed as the sequence itself was transfered. Also raised the question of could player 2 play a monster to fight since he is compelled to help him (though the monster attacks, tresure could be had, helping player 1).

That's the scenario :D hehe. Easy right? :P

Also on a side note I thought of this a bit and thought that the playing of the monster would come down to player 1 or in another way, his choice.

Not the game owners or other players as both searching the room or playing the monster are correct :D.


What's munchkin with out a little quantum physics right? hehe
-Cheers

[tremorlaine]

It all comes down to timing. As long as Transferal Potion was played BEFORE Player 1 announces he is Running Away then it takes affect first. Even though it is still Player 1's turn this is now a new combat where Player 3 can ask for Help. It is perfectly legal for Player 2 to Help. Once Combat is over Player 1 resumes his turn. Since he has already been in Combat then he cannot Look for Trouble. All he can do is Loot the Room (because Transferal Potion says he can. then play cards (not Monsters) to get to 5 or less or give Charity and end his turn.

[MunchkinMan]

Just because a player uses Kneepads Of Allure does not mean that they completely control their helper. Nothing prevents the helper from doing what they can to sabotage the combat, even if they willingly offered to help!

Beyond that, once the combat is transferred, it's no longer the same combat, aside from the same Monster side is being fought. The only player facing the combat is the player it was transferred to, and the original player is no longer in combat, so any helper he may have had is now free to offer to help in the "new" combat.

Third, the Transferral Potion card specifically says the player whose turn it is resumes his turn and may Loot The Room. The rules would say you can't even do that (you faced a Monster in combat, even if it was taken away), so the card gives the player whose turn it is a small concession. Looking for trouble against another Monster would be illegal since a) the rules say you can't do it, b) the Transferral Potion doesn't offer it as a legal play.

[Iceman_mat]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Just because a player uses Kneepads Of Allure does not mean that they completely control their helper. Nothing prevents the helper from doing what they can to sabotage the combat, even if they willingly offered to help!

Beyond that, once the combat is transferred, it's no longer the same combat, aside from the same Monster side is being fought. The only player facing the combat is the player it was transferred to, and the original player is no longer in combat, so any helper he may have had is now free to offer to help in the "new" combat.

Third, the Transferral Potion card specifically says the player whose turn it is resumes his turn and may Loot The Room. The rules would say you can't even do that (you faced a Monster in combat, even if it was taken away), so the card gives the player whose turn it is a small concession. Looking for trouble against another Monster would be illegal since a) the rules say you can't do it, b) the Transferral Potion doesn't offer it as a legal play.

Exactly but that is what started the disscusion on the combat. What is transfered exactly.

The two view points that came up is along what you are saying that the combat started and got transfered.

Does the transfer potion transfer a fight already in progress (make sense I agree)

or

Does it transfer the combat which would be the look for trouble (playing of monster) and the fighting of the monster as it makes a new fight for the other player.

In the second case I suppose what i'm saying is though the player did play a monster he kind of didn't because it and the sequence got transfered thus letting him play that part of the sequence again since it did not occur in a sense. Basically it is like he is still looking for trouble but somehow has someone already helping him.

[MunchkinMan]

The card is played during a combat, as it says on the card. That means that there has to be a Monster on the table in combat. You can't play it whenever someone could start a fight. All the Monster side is transferred to the player who was chosen to fight the Monster(s). When that combat is over, the original player resumes his turn and can loot the room and then any other action that is legal during ones turn after having looted the room.

[Killer Cosby]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Beyond that, once the combat is transferred, it's no longer the same combat, aside from the same Monster side is being fought. The only player facing the combat is the player it was transferred to, and the original player is no longer in combat, so any helper he may have had is now free to offer to help in the "new" combat.

Several weeks back I had a question regarding the 2nd use of the mask of Acheron after my combat was transferred to another player. Found under the thread entitled " Mask of Acheron, transfer potion, use mask of Acheron again?"
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...82#post1645982

Thinking that since my combat that I added a monster via the mask was transferred to another player, it no longer was my combat but rather THEIR new combat, allowing the mask to be used again. However, you ruled that it was the same combat.

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

It's still the same combat, though, so I'm going to say you can't use it again.

Please clarify which course or action is legal. Thanks!

[Andrew Hackard]

I'm going to rule that because a new combat has started, you can use the Mask again. If the intent had been "once a turn," I think it would have said that.

[Bubbles21112]

While reading through this thread I've a question that I think was asked in the first post, but I may either have missed the answer or it wasn't there. Either way I'm going to ask it now.

Player A Kicks open the door. They make Player B help them.

Player C transfers the monster to themselves. Since it's still player As turn Player C can't use the Magic Lamp, Correct?

Since the lamp says Only on your turn, it's still officially Player A's turn?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Bubbles21112

Player C transfers the monster to themselves. Since it's still player As turn Player C can't use the Magic Lamp, Correct?

Since the lamp says Only on your turn, it's still officially Player A's turn?

This is correct. It's addressed in the FAQ.