[Basic] Is a quarterstaff obviously a weapon?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

* Because it's a walking stick instead of a cane, I don't take it very far normally. It might not be out of place in a TL5 or early TL6 setting, though, or in the less developed countries of South America and Africa.

It might not be out of place in the right places here. The technologies that replaced walking sticks are graders and pavement. People who do a lot of walking over lightly- or un-improved ground are still likely to have a pole with them. Though the enthusiasm for ultra-light everything among hikers and backpackers may mean $100 cork grip carbon fiber collapsible trekking poles outnumber sturdy sticks.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Thou shalt not retroactively invalidate prior published stuff. Also, it makes no sense for a hard wooden object to have a worse penetration than a kick or a skilled punch (the default around which other damages and penetrations seem calibrated).

A (0.5) armor divisor for unarmed attacks also seems fair, though of course it makes unarmed fighters useless so you probably don't want to do it in a cinematic campaign.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by a humble lich

Historically, was a staff made iron shod to make it more dangerous as a weapon, or to make it more durable?

It seems Martial Arts in general does not have a damage penalty of a staff that is not iron shod. It has several staff weapons that are not generally iron shod and do the same damage as a the quarterstaff.

Having been hit by both shod and unshod staves, I never noticed much difference.

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I've got a 5' long sassafras walking stick...

Is it obviously a weapon? I think not. I might get some stares if I walked along with it outside a Ren Faire, because of culture...

Lots of old folks in these parts (Central Florida) use walking sticks. You'ld probably get away it if you looked like it was necessary. Less so if not.

And some places will bar it's entry despite the need, and instead give you a loaner cane or walker (Disney World does this) that are absolutely unsuitable as a weapon.

Originally Posted by Anthony

A (0.5) armor divisor for unarmed attacks also seems fair, though of course it makes unarmed fighters useless so you probably don't want to do it in a cinematic campaign.

You could then give the Karate and Brawling skills back normal damage at DX+1 or 2.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Incidentally, I can see metal shodding making a staff more effective on the thrust, but on the swing? The target will surely usually be clobbered by some length of the shaft near the end, not by the very tip..

I've had a bit of bojutsu training, and we were taught to aim a swing so that the tip of the staff hit our target. I have a length of aluminum pole left over from building a fence that I occasionally swing around to stay in practice. I still tend to strike with the tip on swings. Whether I could do so in an actual fight is another story, one I hope I never have to find out.

I'll also mention (in reference to the discussion on what materials were used for the staves) that our bojutsu bo staves were made of Japanese white oak, which resulted in a good, solid, sturdy stick for clobberin' people with.

Luke

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by a humble lich

Historically, was a staff made iron shod to make it more dangerous as a weapon, or to make it more durable?

A bit of both, I suspect.

Certainly, you want some sort of ferrule on the end of a staff if you're going to use it as a hiking aid - unless you treat a hiking staff as a disposable tool.

Weapons like a Bo or Jo are going to be made from the hardest, heaviest wood possible and might be treated to make them even tougher. At the very least, they'll be made from something like fire-hardened bamboo or rattan.

The weight of metal on a typical ferrule isn't likely to be that much of a factor for a metal-shod staff. Any staff or cane with a heavy head is a light club or two-handed mace, assuming that the head seriously unbalances the weapon.

One of the real benefits of knowing Staff skill is that it lends itself to all manner of improvised weapons which can be concealed in plain sight, like heavy curtain rods, flag poles, tent poles, pool cues, or lengths of pipe.

While modern security guards might confiscate a fantasy wizard style staff, they might not catch a metal cane or crutch seemingly carried for medical purposes even if it was made from heavier materials than normal and was capable of telescoping or folding out to create an effective weapons-grade staff.

In certain cultures, a sufficient veneer of patriotism or religious reverence could allow an actual staff to get through security. E.g., a ceremonial staff carried by someone dressed as a Buddhist monk or someone dressed as a member of the military carrying a flag and its staff inside a case.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by tbone

Yes, Wormtongue said that he said that... and the whole point of the character is that he's a liar, anything but straightforward.

I have no idea what he did or didn't say to the guards, or whether Generic Guard Man would know a Gandalf from the local baker. All I know is that the guards didn't seem to consider him or his stick a threat.

The guard in question was Hama, the chief of Theoden's guards, not just a random guard. And he definitely knew Gandalf was a wizard: "The staff in the hand of a wizard may be more than a prop for age." And Gandalf in particular was apparently well-known enough in Rohan to get a nickname, "Stormcrow".

Personally, I think Hama had at least a fair guess about what was going to happen - Gandalf was there to shake off Grima's influence on the King, and get Rohan back on track - and consciously decided to trust him and allow the staff.

As to whether Wormtongue specifically forbade Gandalf's staff or not, in the sequence where he talks about, he says "Did I not counsel you, lord, to forbid his staff?" He's talking to Theoden there, and clearly saying that this is something he told Theoden to do earlier. So if he's lying about that, it seems both dangerous and pointless, since he's lying to the one person who could call him on it (Theoden), and for no clear purpose.

[Railstar]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Certainly, you want some sort of ferrule on the end of a staff if you're going to use it as a hiking aid - unless you treat a hiking staff as a disposable tool.

...

While modern security guards might confiscate a fantasy wizard style staff, they might not catch a metal cane or crutch seemingly carried for medical purposes even if it was made from heavier materials than normal and was capable of telescoping or folding out to create an effective weapons-grade staff.

In certain cultures, a sufficient veneer of patriotism or religious reverence could allow an actual staff to get through security. E.g., a ceremonial staff carried by someone dressed as a Buddhist monk or someone dressed as a member of the military carrying a flag and its staff inside a case.

I never knew about ferrules, so the metal end caps on a staff might be less suspicious. On the other hand, I think it would be reasonable for a guard to say "you don't need to bring a hiking aid with you in here sir."

[AlexanderHowl]

A more important security concern in the contemporary era is that a staff could conceal plastic explosives, chemical weapons, or biological agents that replaced part of the wood. While it would not be a large amount, a device that contained one pound of C4, four ounces of serin gas, or one ounce of antibiotic resistant weaponized anthrax could do a lot of damage in the right place at the right time. If the individual carrying the staff was clever, he or she might even be able to place the object and get out without anyone being wiser (the detonator and transmitter for the plastic explosives could be hidden as a false battery in a smartphone). Of course, smaller objects could be hidden in a cane, but a staff possesses a lot of potential carrying capacity.

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by (E)

The caps are called ferrules and they are typically used to prevent splitting and damage to the stick or staff. So they are likely to be present on most frequently used sticks. (On one end at least)
A staff might be made from denser wood than a walking stick or tool (cattle stick/crook etc). A six foot length of a light wood may be carried differently than a heavy length of english oak.

Well, any decent walking stick is going to have a ferrule, too. Mine does. So I think that ferrule =/= weapon.

And I'm pretty sure that the main purpose of a ferrule is to enhance the durability of the stick, not to add damage. It prevents splitting and splintering. It might be more accurate to lower the HT of a stick without ferrules. Or, alternately, enhance the HT of a stick with them. One with a lot of iron is something more like a tetsubo, which IIRC does have different stats than a quarterstaff. (IDHMBWM.)

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

A more important security concern in the contemporary era is that a staff could conceal plastic explosives, chemical weapons, or biological agents...

So could... well... anything. So that's not much of a point. :) That's why everything goes through the X-ray machine. Yes, including canes.

[AlexanderHowl]

X-ray machines are actually not that effective for detecting explosives (I have had food items be mistaken for explosives because they have similar density to some of the more common explosives). Plastic explosives also come in a wide variety of density, as do woods, so I am sure that someone cleverer than me could find a perfect match. Of course, you could have dogs around sniffing for explosives, but explosive sniffing dogs are much less common than x-ray machines.