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Old 07-19-2018, 10:43 AM   #11
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
The current AM rules give +4 DX to people slower than the attacker and no advantage to people who are faster than the attacker but slower than the victim (if the victim is faster than the attacker).

What about just making it +4 DX to hit someone who STARTED MOVEMENT PRONE? That gives every attacker a +4 and slower people won't get a +4 on the same turn someone fell down.
Yep, I mentioned a similar suggestion above, but I would have it that you just have the figures who are standing up, only switch to standing position at the very end of the turn, right before the next turn starts. That's essentially the same as what you wrote, but you can use their counter to remember they're still getting up.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:59 PM   #12
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yep, I mentioned a similar suggestion above, but I would have it that you just have the figures who are standing up, only switch to standing position at the very end of the turn, right before the next turn starts. That's essentially the same as what you wrote, but you can use their counter to remember they're still getting up.
Guess I didn't read carefully enough (again). Your suggestion makes better sense visually.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:43 AM   #13
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

In Reactions to Injury, -2 DX from 5 hits affects your next turn but falling down affects your current turn (only if you haven't yet acted) and your next turn.

I think reactions to injury should only affect the next turn.

I don't know -- I think this is still whack-a-mole. Arrgh.

I guess the only effective rule is you lose your action this turn if you haven't yet acted and you also lose next action's turn, just like Advanced Melee says.

People standing up should act last in a turn.

Last edited by zot; 07-21-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:17 PM   #14
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

I found it weird that when you took 5 to 7 points of damage that you were immune to the stun effects until next turn.

So in my campaign, when you are stunned, it starts this turn, and lasts until the end of the next turn.

If you are hit by a person with a higher speed, then you are at -2 DX for two turns. If your speed is such that you have already attacked, then the penalty is effectively 1 turn for you (unless you have to make a saving throw later in the turn for some reason). This means, having a low DX sucks.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:19 PM   #15
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

"Standing up happens after all other actions" is an interesting idea. I am now most furiously thinking about that. What would it break?

Advanced Melee totally reorganized the list of options - most of the meaning was the same as in Melee but the presentation was completely different. I don't know if I did that myself or it was done for me. I don't think it is an improvement, and the new books will all have exactly the same option list, with asterists were needed (e.g., combat options for Wizard are still there, but starred).
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:08 PM   #16
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
I found it weird that when you took 5 to 7 points of damage that you were immune to the stun effects until next turn.

So in my campaign, when you are stunned, it starts this turn, and lasts until the end of the next turn.

If you are hit by a person with a higher speed, then you are at -2 DX for two turns. If your speed is such that you have already attacked, then the penalty is effectively 1 turn for you (unless you have to make a saving throw later in the turn for some reason). This means, having a low DX sucks.
We always played that the -2 DX applied to the next action by the person hit for 5+ damage.

It seemed wrong otherwise (i.e. to read it that lower-DX figures hit for 5 get to answer with an unpenalized attack at full DX), as it again gave a kind of advantage to someone with lower DX only.

However we varied whether the -2 DX lasted through the next turn or not. We usually did it as you describe, Rick, where it meant figures hit before their action were at -2 DX for two actions rather than one. But sometimes we played it as "your next action" (whenever that is), which seemed a fairer from a certain point of view, and also required less memory.

Also when someone was knocked down by damage, we applied the -2 to them too, so their next action would take place at -2DX slower, and if they tried to do something while prone (throw, cast, or HTH), also at -2, possibly also -3 if their ST were down to 3 or less.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:21 PM   #17
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

I have been waffling on whether to change that "next turn" to "next attack." Anyone else already playing it as next attack" ?
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:08 PM   #18
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
I have been waffling on whether to change that "next turn" to "next attack." Anyone else already playing it as next attack" ?
Hi Steve, everyone.
I would prefer 'next attack' to the current rules.

(Of course I prefer the rest of this turn and all of the next... that is why it works that way in my campaign.)

:-D
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:16 PM   #19
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
"Standing up happens after all other actions" is an interesting idea. I am now most furiously thinking about that. What would it break? ...
Hi Steve,
Consider, "standing up during the action phase".

Enemies can strike at you with +4 DX, so unless your DX is awesome, (and that is a lot rarer in the new TFT), they will attack you first. But if you have very high DX and the enemy is wounded, and has a low DX to begin with, you may be able to stand before everyone hits you on the ground.

I like rules where the behaviour is different based on the people & situation. It allows the stories generated to have more variety. (You do not want to go too complex tho.)

The other key thing for me, is if you fall down due to damage, that is a big deal. I think that a person who take 8 points of damage (likely more than half their hits), should stand up slower than someone who stumbles because of a trip spell.

See my short post at the top of this thread for how I do it.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:41 PM   #20
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Phasing for falling down/standing up

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
"Standing up happens after all other actions" is an interesting idea. I am now most furiously thinking about that. What would it break?
I don't know that it breaks anything I would want unbroken, but what I notice it changes is:

* Figures who fall before other foes act will be prone for two of those foes' actions before they can get up. (Compared to the AW sequencing, where that could still happen, but only from foes who were slower than the one who knocked them down, but faster than the victim - however the victim is at -2 or -5 DX that turn, so that's liable to be many of the foes).

* Faster fighters who fall will no longer will enjoy the ability to get up before the person who hit them gets to act again.

* As Rick just pointed out, IF you're playing that the +4 DX for attacking prone targets speeds up when an attack occurs (which we usually did NOT do, as it seems slightly illogical and also greatly complicates the sequence of play), then it's unlikely someone knocked down is going to be faster than their attacker (we played that they'd be at -2 at that point, and probably another -3 if they are down to ST 3).

* It's sort of more interesting if it as in AM, because then adjDX has an effect on when you get up. But part of that interestingness is annoying to slower characters. Again, how annoying to them that is might depend on which DX modifiers you include as affecting the sequence. And, one person's annoyance may be their foe's delight, though in general high-DX gets many advantages.

[LIGHT HOWITZER]
Another (fairer? more equal, anyway) sequencing might be to have people get up at the action point (adjDX) of the attacker when they knocked them down the previous turn, but that's a notch or two of sophistication above most TFT rules.
[/LIGHT HOWITZER]
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