Cannot allow a shady used car saleman to live when it is your choice

[Archangel Beth]

Oh, definitely, there are ways to get an Evil Human dead. Just that Malakim are generally on a short leash (even Jordi's...) for various reasons, which vary slightly from Superior to Superior.

And, there's the ever-popular, "If I go hunting humans and doing the requisite cover-up, I easily wind up letting demons get the drop on me, and that is the Greater Evil." Even a rogue Malakite should be keeping that in mind.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by William

They don't even have to kill demons, if they can reform them, or thoroughly and permanently thwart their schemes -- they just have to stop the evil.

Killing humans is generally a no-no, and usually undertaken only when the threat to other humans is severe.

Getting them disbarred or delicensed or arrested by the mundane police could all be good options.

But is it honorable to fabricate evidence to frame them if real evidence is not available?

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Getting them disbarred or delicensed or arrested by the mundane police could all be good options.

But is it honorable to fabricate evidence to frame them if real evidence is not available?

That depends on how the Malakite has defined his honor (i.e. which oaths he's sworn). Note the vignette in either the core rules or GURPS In Nomine, where a Malakite makes a promise and almost immediately breaks it, saying he never swore to act like a Seraph...

[Matthias Wasser]

Originally Posted by robkelk

That depends on how the Malakite has defined his honor (i.e. which oaths he's sworn). Note the vignette in either the core rules or GURPS In Nomine, where a Malakite makes a promise and almost immediately breaks it, saying he never swore to act like a Seraph...

Yeah, I think "honor" is really kind of the wrong way to think about Malakim.

Virtues are the Symphony's white blood cells. They exist to seek out and cleanse the stain of evil and selfhood from reality with utter ruthlessness. Their other chains are there to keep them in check; they are monsters on leashes, and Heaven knows it.

Even the most sophisticated Virtue of Flowers is running on a heartless and simple algorithm of "hunt, kill, repeat." When it enjoins a demon to sit in a garden and just try the joy of connecting with the world, it, unlike a Cherub or Mercurian, is not at all concerned with the good of its fellow being as an end in herself, but treating her as a means for reducing the number of demons in the world. It swiftly monitors and executes nonviolent alternatives, precisely so that they might be exhausted.

[PenitentDemon]

I got the impression in the angelic players guide, that once a Malakim is satisfied of the sincerity of a demons desire for redemption hes likely to refer them aSAP to other angels, as he has no nurturing instinct, towards anyone.

Also that hes probaly not going to Try "Grooming" a demon who hasnt actualy, decided to seek redemption yet, but has shown some minor but definite Selfless tendencies, UNLESS ordered to do so. (in which case hes still going to be good for nothing but "That Balseraph of lust, had to ulterior motive when he helped the young woman pay for the treatment for her cancer... but hes come to resent her for the dissonance he suffered, it will take some work to convince him to do so again, and again"

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

I got the impression in the angelic players guide, that once a Malakim is satisfied of the sincerity of a demons desire for redemption hes likely to refer them aSAP to other angels, as he has no nurturing instinct, towards anyone.

Also that hes probaly not going to Try "Grooming" a demon who hasnt actualy, decided to seek redemption yet, but has shown some minor but definite Selfless tendencies, UNLESS ordered to do so.

I think that's going to vary from Virtue to Virtue. Part of the reason that a Malakite would send an interested demon to other angels is the same reason he would send a human malefactor to mortal authorities -- the Malakim were made to destroy evil and there's more out there to destroy. But if one of the blackwings were to decide that they had a better chance of Redeeming a demon than anyone else (or were reliably informed so by someone else), they'd go at it with the same passion that they usually reserve for armed combat. I could even see one of Michael's making this decision -- if ever there was a struggle of a lone, determined champion against the powers of Evil, it's in creating a successful Redemption.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

I think that's going to vary from Virtue to Virtue.

And from campaign to campaign. The ability of angels (and demons) to transcend/work around their Inherent Natures is kind of implied in the Contrast setting for games. (See the GMG about Contrast... O:> )

For instance, the games that I prefer to run tend to be a bit mushy on the contrast -- there's the overriding instinct, but there's a lot of flex within that. More than one Archangel has Malakim on their "Redemption Squad" rosters, though it varies from Archangel to Archangel, and Virtue to Virtue even within Servitors of that Archangel. (There's even some range to Novalis' Thorns...)

But I could see a much starker interpretation being playable... With the right Malakite-player(s) and/or no Malakite PCs. Playing up the starkness might be a good thing to do in a human-PCs game that's tinging on (or firmly in) the "supernatural horror" genre, for instance. Or it might be a roleplaying challenge for the right sort of group. Or it might be an excuse to let the players go slaughter demons and Hellsworn in fine video game fashion.