04-06-2021, 11:18 AM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2020
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Techniques - half penalty vs full?
My understanding for techniques is (to paraphrase a chapter) "when there's a way to use a skill with a penalty, you can build a technique to buy off that penalty".
Traps has setting traps at -2, so you can buy a Set Traps technique to remove that penalty. Lockpicking by touch is -5, so you can buy that technique to remove the -5. Same for off-hand attacks, dual weapon attacks, etc. (All from Basic section on Techniques.) But then there is Targeted Attacks (MA68) which has a limit of buying off half of the penalty for strikes. Is Hit Location the only special limit there? I have not seen other limits of that sort ("limited to buying off half the penalty"). I am not asking whether it would be balanced with one design method or another. I would like to know if there is a general rule for "in THESE cases, buying off a penalty is limited to half the penalty"? |
04-06-2021, 12:38 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
Techniques do have a maximum value, such as 'cannot exceed base skill by 2' which is pretty common throughout the collection of them. That max can be a negative number, i.e. 'cannot exceed base skill -2' which can be half the untrained technique penalty if the math lines up right.
For the targeted attack technique because there are so many options for which target that comes along with a different malus to-hit the technique instead opts for a formula instead of listing out each option. Arm is max -1, vitals is max -2, eye is max -5 and so on. So "max is 1/2 the penalty" is a nice shorthand for the max level of the technique that'll handle all potential targets for targeted attack. |
04-06-2021, 12:57 PM | #3 |
Join Date: May 2020
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
Yeah, but why is that? The general rules for techniques mention either "max = skill" or "no max".
So you can buy off Strike Vitals from Skill-3 to Skill-2, which is unusual because most Techniques stop at Skill-0. The relevant lines are: Code:
By improving Targeted Attack, the fighter can buy off up to half of his default penalty (round up) for a strike, grab, or throw, or the whole penalty for a grapple |
04-06-2021, 01:00 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
It's a one-off exception to prevent rapier-wielding adventurers from paying 10 points for an insta-kill sword thrust.
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04-06-2021, 01:14 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
Quote:
From a simulationist perspective, a Technique should have a max somewhere below skill (and half the penalty makes sense as a value here) if it makes no sense that someone could train to use the skill in that manner just as well as the normal use of the skill. From a gamist perspective, a Technique should have a max somewhere below skill if you want there to be a legitimate choice between using the Technique and not, and buying it up to full would remove this choice.
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GURPS Overhaul |
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04-06-2021, 01:20 PM | #6 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
The rules for techniques on Characters p.229 say "techniques often specify an upper limit relative to parent skill" and that "maximum level is usually equal to prerequisite skill level" [my emphasis] for important skill uses (and might sometimes exceed it for peripheral ones), so a maximum of something less than full skill on an important technique isn't ruled out by Basic Set rules even if they don't highlight it as an option.
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04-06-2021, 02:05 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: May 2020
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
Quote:
But it seems like there's general agreement that the exception is for "stabbing through the eye as easily as the torso would just be too good", and I definitely agree there. So I will assume that the general rule of "max = skill" is the case for any custom techniques, aside from eye-stabbing. |
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04-06-2021, 02:26 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
For me, the question isn't whether you can buy off hit location penalties with techniques; it's whether you can train to buy off hit location penalties with techniques.
Techniques are about training to buy off penalties. You can train at setting traps; you can train to pick locks by touch. But is it realistic to train yourself to stab people in the eyes better than or as well as you can stab them in the torso? I don't feel like this is a realistic thing you can actively train in. I don't think there are special... erm... techniques for hitting the eyes that really apply. You need precision to hit the eyes, and that's an overall matter. There's no trick involved, nothing you do differently for the eyes than you do for any other spot. At least, not that I know of. I would allow this sort of technique in a highly cinematic or comedic game but not a realistic one. No doubt someone is going to arrive and claim that they've studied in the School of Eye-Stabbing... |
04-07-2021, 03:38 PM | #9 |
☣
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
It gets somewhat weird when you think about the idea that there's a technique to improve your chance to hit a human eyeball inside a skull (Hit Location modifier -9), but not one to improve your chances of hitting one sitting on a table (Size Modifier -9).
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RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
04-08-2021, 07:56 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Techniques - half penalty vs full?
Quote:
Seriously if a player really wanted to learn Targeted Attack (small stationary objects) I'd certainly consider allowing it.
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