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Old 03-30-2021, 06:41 PM   #191
TGLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
You can't just declare that a character is a brave hero who never falters.
Of course not. The GM gets to declare when a character may falter, all the way from "never" to "confronted by a housecat" and beyond. If the GM wants to declare that may a character crumbles when threatened by a thug, they can. They can also declare that a character faces literally no penalty when facing a thug. They also get to declare a fantasy adventurer needs to make a fright check after a ride down the interstate, and doesn't when seeing a grisly corpse.
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Old 03-30-2021, 06:43 PM   #192
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Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Sure, if the character is lucky enough to be in the kind of non-urgent crisis where they can relax for a while and recover. If they're being shot at by a remotely competent shooter, a couple of seconds of stun should be quite enough to kill them.

Most RPG scenarios expect PCs to be capable of surviving the kind of threats that movie protagonists face. In general, in such situations, failing a Fright Check means failure, full stop. The fire will burn the character, gunman will kill them, etc.

Movies present 'normal' people as someone who can consistently succeed at a wide range of stuff that is expensive to do in GURPS. You can play that kind of character, but you need a lot more points than actual normal people, who don't have the Attributes, Fright Checks, traits or skills to succeed under such conditions.
Sorry, but no. What you're describing here is a GM putting the PCs into a situation beyond their abilities - bad GMing. Seriously, if your game that you're running is a low CP game and then you put a sniper up against them? That's not a GM, that's a jerk.

I will repeat - Games should be designed to challenge the characters not overwhelm them.

Full stop.

You seem to be arguing the all games should be of the Action Hero type tropes, and no, that's not all games, not even close.

- Shane
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Old 03-30-2021, 06:46 PM   #193
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Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

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Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
Of course not. The GM gets to declare when a character may falter, all the way from "never" to "confronted by a housecat" and beyond. If the GM wants to declare that may a character crumbles when threatened by a thug, they can. They can also declare that a character faces literally no penalty when facing a thug. They also get to declare a fantasy adventurer needs to make a fright check after a ride down the interstate, and doesn't when seeing a grisly corpse.
These are not just fiat decisions. Any time a person might suffer psychological shock, the character with Will 10, no relevant skills and no other relevant traits has, at best, 50% chance of being able to act decisively despite it.

The more reasonable character build for life and death challenges, with Will 12+, Combat Reflexes and Soldier at IQ+2 is significantly more likely to make all necessary checks to be able to act despite being shot at, caught in a burning building or other frightening situations.
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Old 03-30-2021, 07:16 PM   #194
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Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

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These are not just fiat decisions.
Except as written, they are:
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Originally Posted by B360
When you are faced with a stressful situation or a distraction, the GM may require you to roll against your Will to stay focused.
...
A Fright Check is a Will roll made to resist fear. Fright Checks can occur as often or as rarely as the GM wishes.
...
What counts as “ordinary” depends on the characters and the setting.
...
An ordinary, 21st-century American might have to make Fright Checks for encounters with monsters, dead bodies, and the supernatural. A battle-hardened commando in the same game might not have to roll for dead bodies.
Given that fright checks for two different characters in what is stated to be the same game may or may not occur based on the characters concept and description, without any mention of traits, I think it's only reasonable to assume that it applies to the other kinds of will rolls.
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Old 03-30-2021, 07:56 PM   #195
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Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

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Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
Except as written, they are:

Given that fright checks for two different characters in what is stated to be the same game may or may not occur based on the characters concept and description, without any mention of traits, I think it's only reasonable to assume that it applies to the other kinds of will rolls.
'A battle-hardened commando' does imply traits, not just description.

Zero point features don't have mechanical benefits.
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Old 03-30-2021, 08:38 PM   #196
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Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

There's also the big thing to remember; Given a large enough sampling of (say) characters with attributes of 9 across the board, you will hear success stories about them. It's no different than hearing about people winning a lottery, sometimes the dice are just with you.

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Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
Given that fright checks for two different characters in what is stated to be the same game may or may not occur based on the characters concept and description, without any mention of traits, I think it's only reasonable to assume that it applies to the other kinds of will rolls.
If anything, it makes it sound like fight checks don't have solid enough rules behind them. It basically gives the GM the ability to be willy nilly about things and undermine what a trait represents.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 03-31-2021, 05:03 AM   #197
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Default Re: You enter a portal and gain 25 Character points.

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Will, Fearlessness, appropriate Perks, Will-based Soldier (or other relevant skill) and Combat Reflexes are all trainable and combat experience tends to, in GURPS terms, add them.

You can't just declare that a character is a brave hero who never falters. If they have experience of overcoming stress and psychological trauma that others might not and may be expected to have better odds than any random person next time, that's reflected by traits that cost points.

Characters can be professional software developers, patent attorneys or clinical psychologists and also prove to be one of the rare few people who successfully act decisively in a crisis, but that costs more points than just the career part.

For only 25 points, it's a lot more likely that someone will be a well-rounded person with hobbies, friends and family, but no skills or other traits that allows them to keep their cool when attacked by active shooters at a concert, avoid the fire and disable the attackers.
There is some truth to what he is saying though. In the Fright Check rules it expressly calls out that someone may have it make a fright check if they see a dead body, but if they are used to seeing dead bodies they don't. Fright Checks are highly narrative, and a Fright Check will not always trigger for the same people. For instance a sheltered noble is going to be perturbed by the sight and smells of rotting corpse more than a peasant. The use of a soldier is a bad example to be sure, as a Soldier of Noble Birth, & a Soldier of Low Birth are both going to be way more used to death and violence than any civilian, and that's just barring the Fearlessness, Will, & Combat Reflexes they are likely to have.

That being said this mostly only applies to more universally perturbing things like corpses and seeing a Dragon (assuming it does not have DnD Style fear aura) I mean if say your used to doing business with Dragons, or even hailing from a valley that had a Dragon protector, you aren't going to have to make a Fright Check, but if you don't even think they exist and have only ever heard horrible tales of the giant fire breathing reptiles, yeah, Fright Check.
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