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Old 10-17-2018, 11:48 PM   #1
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Cost of Enchantments

I've been tweaking GCA4 for a long time to change this for myself, but the cost of enchantments GCA4 gives are often very different than in the books.

"For instance, a sword with Accuracy +2, a 1,000-energy item, would cost $33,000 over and above the cost of the sword and any materials required for the enchantment." (M. 20). But when I do it in GCA4, it doesn't cost an additional $33,000, but an additional $505,000. The same is true of other enchantments.

Is there a way to fix this, or am I just missing something?
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Cost of Enchantments

Sure, cost of enchantments is tweakable via data files. However, before you do so you should examine your assumptions on the cost of Enchantments.

The daily cost of an enchanter is quoted as $33/day throughout GURPS Magic, however that assumption is only correct at TL3. As wages change with TL so too does the daily cost of an enchanter and, thus, the cost of an enchantment. Typical Monthly Pay is listed on p. B517 and is what's used to calculate the cost of a Mage-Days work. $505 per energy is the cost of a Mage-day at TL 12, which I assume is what you've set the campaign TL to in GCA.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:56 PM   #3
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: Cost of Enchantments

I do see your point and you are correct, that PC is set at TL12. (As a side note, the character has Jumper (World), and might buy something at TL3 or TL4 or TL8 etc.)

However, my understanding is that in 4th edition GURPS, prices are the same through different TLs unless otherwise specified. In GURPS Basic Set pg. 27, under "Tech Level and Starting Wealth," it says

Quote:
GURPS gives wealth and prices in “$” for convenience. The $ can stand for “dollars,” “credits,” “pennies,” or even units of barter. In a contemporary setting, $1 is a modern U.S. dollar. In other periods, $1 equates roughly with the amount of local currency needed to buy a loaf of bread or equivalent staple – not with historical U.S. dollars.

For example, in a high medieval society, each $ might be a copper farthing. In WWII-era America, each $ would convert to $0.10 in deflated 1940s-era dollars. And in a cyberpunk world with hyperinflation, each $ might equal $1,000 in grossly devalued 2030-era dollars! The GURPS $ is a constant, however. Variations in starting wealth by TL reflect increased prosperity due to civilization’s progress – not inflation.

Worldbooks might give starting wealth, wages, and prices in local currency– historical U.S. dollars, British pounds, pieces of eight, etc. In such cases, they will always give a conversion factor to constant $.
My understanding it that this holds true for prices unless a book specifies an exception for a TL or society.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:06 PM   #4
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: Cost of Enchantments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
However, my understanding is that in 4th edition GURPS, prices are the same through different TLs unless otherwise specified.
The entire cost to make an enchantment is in the cost of hiring the Enchanter, and that cost goes up with TL. In a modern day game you aren't going to find anybody to work at $33/day, let alone in a TL12 society.

Where you can see an improvement is in the use of magic to enchant items on an industrial scale, and largely this will come from having more energy available allowing larger and larger Quick & Dirty Enchantments, which reduces the cost dramatically. Advanced techniques may also allow enchanters to put more than one energy per day into an enchantment. However, as long as enchanting is done via slow & sure methods at a rate of one energy per day taking months or years of man-days to complete an enchantment the cost will be directly tied to the cost of the Enchanters time, and that goes up with TL.

Ultimately, though, the cost of an enchanters time, the amount of energy an enchantment takes, the amount of energy that can be put into an enchantment per day, and the amount of energy available to cast Q&D foe cheap are all GM decisions, which is why the datafile is written in such a way as to make it easily alterable.
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 10-18-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:44 PM   #5
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: Cost of Enchantments

It seems like this has moved out of the domain of GCA4, and more into the domain of interpretation of GURPS rules themselves. I can see your points, but can also see mine.

If you express no objection, and if I don't find a conclusive discussion on this in the GURPS forum, I'd like to start a discussion on this there.

As always, thanks for your work on GCA4. I haven't designed a GURPS character in years without using it, and it makes designing magic users MUCH easier.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cost of Enchantments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
If you express no objection, and if I don't find a conclusive discussion on this in the GURPS forum, I'd like to start a discussion on this there.
No objections to continuing this over there. The cost of enchantments has been a topic of GURPS discussions going back into the Roleplayer 'Zine days in the late 80's & 90's.
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:53 AM   #7
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: Cost of Enchantments

I gave myself a day or two to let this settle in my brain. I think the key to my dilemma is what you posted here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Where you can see an improvement is in the use of magic to enchant items on an industrial scale, and largely this will come from having more energy available allowing larger and larger Quick & Dirty Enchantments, which reduces the cost dramatically. Advanced techniques may also allow enchanters to put more than one energy per day into an enchantment....Ultimately, though, the cost of an enchanters time, the amount of energy an enchantment takes, the amount of energy that can be put into an enchantment per day, and the amount of energy available to cast Q&D foe cheap are all GM decisions, which is why the datafile is written in such a way as to make it easily alterable.
I admit I originally thought of this as something of a RAW issue. But GURPS Magic does, of course, say it's a GM decision. And you linked to a site that shows how to change the cost of enchantments in GCA4. As of right now, I don't see the need to post this elsewhere.

Thanks a lot for your help!
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