[MA] Suggestions needed for BEAT!

[Athanbeli]

In my sword&sorcery campaign, one of the major melee confrontation is getting closer.

It's going to pitch 2 warriors; both are wieldieng 2 weapons.
The NPC attains this thanks to extra attack, while the PC has the Dual-Weapon technique at max level.
Both have 20/21 in their primary combat skill.
The NPC is noticeably stronger, so I'd like to give BEAT a try.

Any suggestions on its useful tactics, given the situation above?
How do you describe the manouvre, narratively?
How to justify the beaten guy's unmodified attacks, having suffered that abuse in the attacker's turn?

Thanks!

[Maz]

Tactics
Having Extra Attack is a lot more versatile than DWA. For instance someone with Extra Attack could make one of the attacks a Rapid Strike.
But as you mentioned you would use beat. A good option. Beat with one weapon and then attack with the other.
Another good option that is often overlooked is Riposte (MA p.124).

And as always when two almost equal opponents face off, Evaluate becomes really powerful!


Anyway for something more specific. It depends al to of the tactics chosen by the PC. If he is the type to charge ahead and attack you can take him down really quickly with a combination of AoD:parry+cross-parry+riposte. Maximize your defense take a high penalty and strike back with a beat on top of it.

If he is more careful, try to build up Evaluate bonus an then once he attack, you retaliate with a Beat+Deceptive-Attack combination.


If he is completely defensive (something I have never seen a PC be). Then just make lots of attack at Skill:16 and hope for a Crit (with skill 16 you have a 10% chance to crit).

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

How to justify the beaten guy's unmodified attacks, having suffered that abuse in the attacker's turn?

Yes, this bothers me too, so I've house-ruled that Beat affects the next attack as well as the next defense (only with that weapon, of course.)

This balances out some of it's drawbacks, such as the fact that it can only be used in certain circumstances against one defense.

Alternately, you could rule that you can only use Beats as Defensive Feints unless you're attacking immediately after the Beat.

As noted, this isn't a problem for the guy with Extra Attack.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Yes, this bothers me too, so I've house-ruled that Beat affects the next attack as well as the next defense (only with that weapon, of course.)

That's a nice house rule. If your margin of victory is applied to both attack and defense, and a particularly good beat can either unready or disarm the weapon in question, that would be pretty self-consistent and give a really nice effect.

[Bruno]

The strength of Beat (as written) is not in a one-on-one scenario.

First, beware, because the opponent will probably just choose to Dodge (or parry with the other weapon!) if the Beat penalty is bad enough. This might be helpful, but Beat isn't a fight ender at all.

Two, the main strength in Beat isn't in a one-on-one duel, it's when you have buddies. A Beat applies to anyone who attacks the victim, not just the guy who did the Beat.

If you give the victim a penalty to attacks (especially all attacks against all opponents) as well, then in a multi-combatant fight it's going to be very attractive. So watch out for that.

[Athanbeli]

Originally Posted by Maz

Tactics
Having Extra Attack is a lot more versatile than DWA. For instance someone with Extra Attack could make one of the attacks a Rapid Strike.

Originally Posted by Bruno

The strength of Beat (as written) is not in a one-on-one scenario.

First, beware, because the opponent will probably just choose to Dodge (or parry with the other weapon!) if the Beat penalty is bad enough. This might be helpful, but Beat isn't a fight ender at all.

The rapid-strike thing is interesting: beat away (hopefully) one weapon, then make 2 attacks (spending 2 FP for flurry of blows) hoping for a lousy dodge roll (the other parry might be pretty easy): one of the attacks connects.
This also relieves me of the issue of the beaten PC's attacks. I'm a bit frightful of introducing house rules in this long-anticipated fight.

Since this is sort of a duel, the NPC cannot count on his friends taking advantage of his beat. Still, I'd like to make the NPC's bestial strength relevant besides damage (to the PC or his weapons).
Any other ideas?

Side-notes: why does dual-weapon attack impose the infamous -1 penalty to defenses, while 577838 extra attacks do not?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

Side-notes: why does dual-weapon attack impose the infamous -1 penalty to defenses, while 577838 extra attacks do not?

DWA occurs simultaniously. 577838 extra attacks occur one after another.

[vicky_molokh]

DWA can also be parried in one sweep (see MA for details).

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Athanbeli

Since this is sort of a duel, the NPC cannot count on his friends taking advantage of his beat. Still, I'd like to make the NPC's bestial strength relevant besides damage (to the PC or his weapons).
Any other ideas?

If he's very strong, he can wield really heavy weapons...*really* heavy weapons. Really heavy weapons are great because parrying them results in possible weapon breakage. That is some awesome-sauce right there.

So what weapons is the PC wielding?

Here is where you get into some trouble. Most regular one-handed weapons just aren't that heavy. The heaviest I can see is the Morningstar at 6lb.

So what are your options?

1) Have your NPC single wield a really heavy two-handed weapon...A Maul, Halberd, and Heavy Horse Cutter both weigh 12lb. That is nice! The Gada is 15lb. Very Nice indeed!
2) You can do the two weapons as Morningstar and Shield. Shields are weapons that can attack (Shield Bash for the win!)...and Shields can get really heavy. Take a Medium Shield at 15lb and that will threaten to break most weapons...you can as some of the options from Dungeon Fantasy 1...the most awesome would be Dwarven which doubles weight.
3) Have the NPC have Gigantism to they can use SM1 weapons which are 1.5 times the weight. So the Morningstar would go from 6lb to 9lb--That would threaten most regular swords.

If the character is really, really strong...they can also wear heavy armor as well as the heavy shield/weapons and still have good mobility. That should be a bummer for your PC.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

That's a nice house rule. If your margin of victory is applied to both attack and defense, and a particularly good beat can either unready or disarm the weapon in question, that would be pretty self-consistent and give a really nice effect.

Emphasis mine.

I'd love to figure out some good mechanics for this, any suggestions?