Damage from falls

[Lupo]

Don't you think that damages from falls, per B431, are too low?
They start quite high, but increase veeery slowly...

Let's suppose a 10 HP man, falling on a hard surface.

To get 1d of damage, the minimum fall required is 1 yard.
For 2d, 3 yds
For 3d, 8 yds
For 4d, 15 yds
For 5d, 24 yds
For 6d, 35 yds
For 7d, 49 yds
For 8d, 65 yds

Note that only falls from 35+ yards will probably totalize 20+ hits, forcing you to a HT roll to avoid death.

Since the maximum velocity for a spread-eagled fall is 60 y/s, the maximum possible damage for a 10 HP man is 12d. Averaging 42 hits, you have 1 chance in 8 of surviving a fall from an airplane, if your HT is 10. If your HT is good but in the human norm (that is, 12) you have a 40% chance!

I know that GURPS is a game, and that no system can provide accurate results for each and every situation... but using the rules as written, falls aren't that dangerous.

I know also that people have survived incredible falls, that many attempt of suicide fail that way, that bleeding rules can worsen your condition, but this doesn't seem enough.

Both in reality and in fiction, people are expected to die if they fall from the fourth floor, or into a 20-yards pit.

Hi

Lupo

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Both in reality and in fiction, people are expected to die if they fall from the fourth floor, or into a 20-yards pit.

I'd expect a fall into a 20 yd pit to break your legs but not kill you. A fall from a 4th floor window would probably leave you broken and dying, but not immediately dead. Quick work at the emergency room could save you still.

Luke

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

I'd expect a fall into a 20 yd pit to break your legs but not kill you. A fall from a 4th floor window would probably leave you broken and dying, but not immediately dead. Quick work at the emergency room could save you still.

Luke

I am not sure; many workers die every year falling from roofs of 3 or 4 store houses.

Anyway, in GURPS falling from a 4th floor window *MIGHT* leave you broken, but not dying.
3d damage averages to 10.5, and you can easily roll 9 or less.
An average PC, even in low-powered campaigns, probably has at least 1-2 points of DR, and won't be reduced at negative HP by such a fall.

Hi

Lupo

[enpeze]

Originally Posted by Lupo

I am not sure; many workers die every year falling from roofs of 3 or 4 store houses.

Anyway, in GURPS falling from a 4th floor window *MIGHT* leave you broken, but not dying.
3d damage averages to 10.5, and you can easily roll 9 or less.
An average PC, even in low-powered campaigns, probably has at least 1-2 points of DR, and won't be reduced at negative HP by such a fall.

Hi

Lupo

You are right. One of my first impressions I took from G4 2 months ago was that the falling damage formula is over complicated but not realistic. (same problem like the hiking issue)

[enpeze]

A solution could be to let the faller make a HT death rolls with modifiers, depending on height, beginning with -1 on 15yd and adding a further -1 each additional damage die, eg. -5 for 8d and 65yds)

Its still not realistic because only a mini percentage of people do survive falls from 65yds height, but its better than the default rule and easy to remember in the heat of an roleplaying action.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Lupo

I am not sure; many workers die every year falling from roofs of 3 or 4 store houses.

Anyway, in GURPS falling from a 4th floor window *MIGHT* leave you broken, but not dying.
3d damage averages to 10.5, and you can easily roll 9 or less.
An average PC, even in low-powered campaigns, probably has at least 1-2 points of DR, and won't be reduced at negative HP by such a fall.

On the other hand, a 9 mm pistol bullet through the center torso causes 2d+2. That leaves most people in serious or critical condition, and a large number of them would die without prompt medical treatment. Some of them do die despite prompt medical treatment. So, if somewhere in the vicinity of 7 to 11 points is very serious and likely ultimately lethal, the 3d from a 3 to 4 story fall will, on average, give 1.5 points of damage more, and is thus more serious than getting shot.

For mondo realism, I think the entire GURPS damage system should be reworked, starting with ditching the ablative hit point model (I've done this with my own house rules). If you are not after mondo realism and just want a fun game, then the odd behavior of survivability from falls is probably not an issue.

Personally, I think that most DR should not protect against falls. I've tinkered around with some rules that would correct for this (essentially, all armors have a PAD rating that protects against blunt trauma, and a FLEX rating that gives the fraction of damage that turns into blunt trauma. Wide area impacts would treat all armor as if it had a FLEX of 1 and thus only the PAD protects you). They may be too cumbersome to play, however.

I also think the collision rules for movable objects are not realistic. Particularly where a collision with a movable object can cause more damage than a collision with an immovable object at the same velocity.

Luke

[digoraccoon]

I've made a decision long ago not to try to get into to much realism with the games. I agree that the falling damage seems a bit low, but I consider the PCs heroes with more extrodinary durability then the average person. They're the types that beat the odds and break the statistics more often then not. :)

Some times if I want more realistic statistics, I give average NPCs a few less hit points so that they die more often from falls and gun shots.

[Luther]

Ludo,

I think the falling rules are fine. If you want realism (and I want it too), you should roll for hit locations and apply bleeding rules: internal bleeding is a killer, and serious falls will cause it.

How to apply the above is up to the individual GM, G4 doesn't give anymore guidelines, but clearly supports dangerous falls. Personally I'd roll a location for every full 2d of damage (minimum one location) and apply bleeding rules to torso and head wounds.

PS: you can revise the Hit Location from a fall table from G3 p131 too.

[sidis]

in medium falls (20-80yds falls) the body stay normal, the real cause of death is the disacceleration thats damage brain, spine and others vital points .

a simple damagem multiplier x3 (vitals) in falls bigger than 10yds resolve the problem.

[Kyle Aaron]

You won't get perfect realism in a system with hit points, or any other rpg system. Consider my own GURPS GM. Playing volleyball one evening he twisted his knee, and tore some ligaments. He'll need reconstructive surgery, followed by physio. That means from injury to full recovery will be about 18-24 months.

Hands up who wants rules for getting the Lame disadvantage after a critical failure roll playing a sport?

If you want to talk about realism in injuries, forget how much damage they do - the real thing neglected is recovery. Plenty of people survive big falls, multiple gunshot wounds, etc - but they have more than just scars. They end up lame or with bad vision or headaches or weak grip or hamfisted or... a zillion other things.

But don't impose that on the pcs. Let them be heroic. Just put in whatever amount of damage seems reasonable to you, don't worry about how realistic it is. If it's 90% of the way to reality, that's close enough to be reasonable, but not close enough to be depressing;)

The remaining 10% is the Fun Factor, which is most important. For example, we have "On Killing" rules. Reluctant Killer is the default, people are expected to have that or something similar. We roleplay that, because you can be a reluctant killer and still have fun. But we don't roleplay post-traumatic stress disorder from being a reluctant killer and having killed anyway, or from having seen traumatic things... cos that ain't fun. It's realistic, but it's not fun.