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Old 09-11-2018, 12:18 PM   #51
ianargent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

Thanks for the honest answer. "It can't be done economically and this is why" is one of those answers I hate to hear as a user but love to hear as a customer; because it means the company has a plan to stay in business.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:27 PM   #52
AurochDigital
 
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

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Originally Posted by ianargent View Post
Thanks for the honest answer. "It can't be done economically and this is why" is one of those answers I hate to hear as a user but love to hear as a customer; because it means the company has a plan to stay in business.
That's an amazing statement I'm going to steal (if that's ok?) for a presentation on 'the steampocalypse'...
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:30 PM   #53
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

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Originally Posted by AurochDigital View Post
That's a good question. We've generally bumped rules errors up to a B as you suggest. A few rules differences are there for the asynchronous nature of the game. The one area that is a concession to how the digital game works is this issue of edges of tiles. Basically we had to make a call on how it would be implemented early on that gave us advantages in other development areas, so giving us scope to do more, to code the tiles in a way that made these edge cases something we'd have to live with. As with other aspects, success on Steam would mean we could re-do that component. However without that, we'd have to add a lot of instability into the game to fix. Not idea, but pragmatic from a dev POV.
I understand the difference between "different because we made a conscious decision" and "different because we missed something." The first one is reasonably documented in the in-game details (Train speed management, etc). Is there a list of the other ones that can be shared in some capacity?

What I'd really like to understand is what Class of issues are still known about that need to be addressed that active plans to fix are in place? I've been slowly going through my personal backlog of what I've reported to see what's still outstanding, but it would be nice to know what I should be spending my time on instead of trying to hit everything (it's not a small list).
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:38 PM   #54
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

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Is there a list of the other ones that can be shared in some capacity?
We keep a list of all reported issues. I'll go though them and pull out this data with notes on why that call was made. Bear with me, that's not a super-quick task...
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

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We keep a list of all reported issues. I'll go though them and pull out this data with notes on why that call was made. Bear with me, that's not a super-quick task...
I'm sure it is. Don't kill yourself dredging all of it up. :-)
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:15 PM   #56
offsides
 
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

I totally understand that there's not really money for development at this time, but I"m concerned that one of the things that is passively hindering the ability of the game to grow beyond a certain point is the missing core units (IIRC, that would be LGEVs and GEV-PCs), which are needed to recreate a number of "classic" and more recent scenarios, especially the ones in the scenario books. I'm curious as to what level of development would be needed to actually add them since I would think that simply adding additional unit types should be relatively simple, though I acknowledge that not knowing the ins-and-outs of Ogre development it's probably more complicated than I realize. Even if GEV-PCs were too hard due to INF carrying/stacking, LGEVs would be a huge win. Would you guys consider adding them sooner rather than later, even if it's not right away?

In any event, I appreciate the update and the transparency - honesty even when it's not what I want to hear is always preferred over telling me lies to make me happy in the short run.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:23 PM   #57
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

Why some (seemingly obvious) units were left out is probably in that list of decisions we will eventually get to see. It probably isn't a rules thing, since the rules are pretty modular and already exist. It feels more like an art budget question.

But again, that goes back to the timeline of when certain things came into being. If you design chronologically, you would get everything that was in Ogre and G.E.V., but that's obviously not how it was thought out. The ODE rules were taken as a whole and units were picked out of that combined resource, where their "historic" placement doesn't matter.

I'd be very interested to hear the thought process on unit selection.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:06 PM   #58
Tim Kauffman
 
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

This game has ceased being developed. The only work being done anymore is fixing "major" bugs and no new content will be added(.) No units, no Command Post for the Scenario Creator, nothing.

The games greatest asset, with the most potential to move this IP forward, the Scenario Creator remains unfinished forevermore.

Here's a example of what continues to go wrong with this game since it's inception...I suggested a map exporter so we can export our maps we make in the Scenario Creator for use on the table top which was implemented. I exported a map from a Scenario of mine, but before I did, thankfully noticed some of the lines on the hexes not being properly made which made the map look bad. So I went in and edited them to a proper standard and then printed the map which turned out nicely because I fixed the issue superficially.

Now in recent news here, I find that such bugs are lowest class from the following statement: "We are aware there are Class C and D bugs in the game (as in most games), which are minor visual / UI issues that are noticeable sometimes (a Class C) and really minor visual issues that most players won’t spot (a Class D)."
In other words, this issue is trivial and since I'm probably the only one who would ever notice it, it won't be fixed. I also recently sent a log report about a basic functionality UI issue in the Scenario Creator, which I had sent last year and it persists.

But, since only "major" bugs are ever going to be considered for fixing, none of this really matters.

I find it really shameful that just a few months ago we were asked what we would like to see in the way of improvements, issue fixes, ect, to now be told that none of it matters anymore.

Nothing has really changed a year since it's release other than ironing out bugs that never should have been along for the ride of it's release. This game was unfinished on launch day and will remain so from now on and neither SJGs or AUROCH DIGITAL will change that.

So this is what a million dollar KICKSTARTER for OGRE can produce? Please don't tell me nobody made any money from this, it's insulting.

The power core for this game that could have propelled the IP further was never properly designed, built and implemented which would require the funding needed to do so which was never there from the beginning and never will be. That's what really happened here.

The Scenario Creator will remain in it's current unfinished state...congratulations, you just hamstrung your own IP. This game, at it's core is Scenarios! There will never be a better opportunity than this Scenario Creator. But that doesn't matter anymore. Such a shame it all shook out like this. So much potential squandered and left abandoned.

I'll continue to enjoy the STEAM OGRE game and Scenario Creator within the limits of it's unfinished condition.

A sincere Thanks to SJGs and AUROCH DIGITAL for what was accomplished. I would like to applaud this game, but unfortunately it must only be a golf clap.

KEEP THOSE TREAD UNITS ROLLING!
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Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 09-11-2018 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:11 PM   #59
Mack_JB
 
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Kauffman View Post
The games greatest asset, with the most potential to move this IP forward, the Scenario Creator remains unfinished forevermore.
The purpose of the game on Steam was the ability to play a game on Steam -- not to use it as a development engine for the board game. The Scenario Creator was a nice touch, but clearly not absolutely necessary to play the game itself.

Quote:
So this is what a million dollar KICKSTARTER for OGRE can produce? Please don't tell me nobody made any money from this, it's insulting.
I'm going to guess that none of the KS money went to the Steam game- The KS money went to the KS game, and other developments over the years. The ODE box sold for about a hundred bucks -- shipping alone was astronomical. SJG offered the ODE version at a steep price cut out of love for the game.

So the fact that the Steam game was a SG from the KS was fulfilled, but very likely not with KS money.

SJG makes board games, physical products, not video games. They experimented, did pretty well with it, and now can't pour further funds into it for practical reasons.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:11 AM   #60
AurochDigital
 
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Default Re: Survey: Top Priorities for Ogre VG Improvement

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
I totally understand that there's not really money for development at this time, but I"m concerned that one of the things that is passively hindering the ability of the game to grow beyond a certain point is the missing core units (IIRC, that would be LGEVs and GEV-PCs), which are needed to recreate a number of "classic" and more recent scenarios, especially the ones in the scenario books. I'm curious as to what level of development would be needed to actually add them since I would think that simply adding additional unit types should be relatively simple, though I acknowledge that not knowing the ins-and-outs of Ogre development it's probably more complicated than I realize.
Of of the units that we didn't get time to add in, most are pretty straightforward to add yes. They need 3D models creating from the AutoCAD files, a bunch of connectors and textures adding so they work with the game system. More the issues that that it still takes time, which costs.

Some of the units - for example the cruise missile - are not complex 3D models, but do need a new game system, which in turn takes code time and then in turn takes testing time for how it integrates into the main system (SP and MP).
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