Stop Spending Earned Character Points

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

That has a related issue I may address in a different post. In some of our campaigns, one GM might run 80% of the time, meaning on average the other players could get 4 - 5 times the earned character points as that GM's PC. The other players spending all their points can leave that GM's PC in the dust.

With my adult groups, it's rare that everyone can attend every session. A few years ago, we stopped handing out individual point awards and just set the level for the campaign. Typically, PCs earn three points per session, sometimes more if it was an extra-long game or an especially important milestone. Before each upcoming session, I always note what the point level is. Whether or not you were there last time or are starting a new character or whatever, you can use up to that many points. For our last DFRPG session, for example, PCs were at 360 points. This doesn't work as well if individual PCs earn new disadvantages in play, but we still prefer this system to everyone tracking points individually.

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

Good example.

Note that the example you quoted was from Ultraviolet, not me.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

Gritty realism, sure. But a current campaign is not gritty realism or modern. The focus of the campaign is that we're people of average or below income who are just trying to pass our classes or do our jobs--and who keep running into thieves, crazed cultists, demonic flying monkeys, etc. If a PC becomes rich or a routine slayer of demons, they no longer fit the campaign.

Again, Impulse Buys. There's a whole section, Trading Growth for Drama (pp.18–19) that deals explicitly with what to do if getting perpetually better is not what you're aiming for. A simple “let me buy two Impulse Points for one Character Point” could allow a player who's character has reached the limits of growth that the player is comfortable with to continue on, and could even allow a 150-point character to continue to hold his own when everyone else is in the 400-point range — assuming he can't already do that by virtue of monopolizing an important niché in the game.

You might even set the exchange rate based on how far behind he is: say, 1:1 if he's within 50 points of the average point total of the PCs, 2:1 if his deficit is between 51 and 100, 3:1 if it's between 101 and 150, and so on. So a 150-point character in a campaign dominated by 400-point characters would get 5 Impulse Points for each Character Point he exchanges.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I generally don't use Time-Server in my games; it carries the implication that the reason why someone plateaus in his job is because of some sort of “burn-out” mentality — which, while it does happen, isn't the reason why most people plateau: for most people, it's simply a matter that they aren't insatiable learners: they want to know what they need to to do their jobs, and are satisfied once they can do that.

An inability to learn at your job until you buy off the quirk is definitely underpriced as a limitation.

First we figure out how much it is if someone can ONLY learn on their job

Cannot Learn [-20]
Can Learn (Aspected: Job -20%) [15]

That would be worth 5 points. Obviously "can learn from everything but my job" is probably worth more (a lower discount) than this.

-20% accessibility is like B46 "Very Common" rarity on Damage Resistance. DR with a "Very Common" Bane is worth -15% (H14) so instead of saving 4 points it should only save 3, making "can't learn in a very common aspect" a -3 disadvantage, not a quirk.

Like I said earlier, you can take Switchable +10% Temporary Disadvantage: Cannot Learn -20% on 1 point of IQ to save a character point. Rather than being unable to learn at a job, this just means you function at -1 to IQ while learning.

Also maybe an extra 1 FP lost per hour when that IQ point is switched on, based on what Chinese Elemental Powers page 10 (right col, 4th par of Activating Powers).

I think that's based on P159's "Long-Term Use" rate, CEF just clarified this means "keeping a switchable ability on".

CEFp17 mentions costing 1 FP per hour is a 0% feature ("isn’t applied often enough
to meaningfully limit use") which I guess makes sense since you'd expect "once per 60 minutes" to be worth 1/60 the discount that "once per minute" (-5%) is worth.

A -0.08% discount rounds up to -0%. There's no ability (or enhancement) with a base value high enough for this to matter. Even a +400% modifier like Cumulative, reducing it to +399% requires -0.25%, more than thrice this.

That said: if this is considered a necessary built-in feature of switchable (rather than an optional one) it might be fair to allow a cheaper version of "Reduced Fatigue +20%" to buy it off.

It seems reasonable for example to allow an "Hourly Reduced Fatigue +14%" by applying B115's "Takes Recharge" as a Limited Enhancement (B111) to cancel out the new hourly FP fee for Switchable.

- - -

Arguably though, this could be inverted: if the "default state" of your switchable ability is "on" (for example, ghosts who who revert to Insubstantial when reduced to 0 HP) then you could argue instead it costs FP to turn it off... so if the default state of your "cannot learn" IQ was on then you pay FP/hour to keep it off so you can learn?

Or actually I think I'm going about this the wrong way. It's simpler to ignore IQ and do this:

Cannot Learn -20
Can Learn (Requires Will Roll -5) [19]

There, you save 1 character points (quirk metatrait) and it IS possible for you to learn, but your learning might get interrupted when you fail your once-per-minute roll, at which point you'll need to spend FP to try and turn it back on again.

This would give a logical reason why people might not be able to learn at jobs: they opt not to spend the FP as soon as they fail that attempt, because they need that FP for work.

This especially would make sense if using Last Gasp rules where IQ/DX/HT drops by 1 point per 20% missing FP (although IMO if using LG it makes more sense to substitute action points for FP, or just buy some kind of ER to power traditional FP demands)

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

But lets assume that one player actually says "No, this is where this character is, no room for improvement". There's still room for improvement that doesn't change the concept but keeps up with narrative....
D) Extra Life. Seriously, go buy it. Death is a grim feature of my games no matter how cinematic or 'cuddly' they are.

You had a number of good examples--thanks! I'm only quoting that one because, in a supers campaign where I did feel the PC was where I wanted him, I did buy Extra Life. My fundamental character concept included "I am alive." lol

Originally Posted by bocephus

I feel like I need some more detail at this point. What pt level did the chars start at, what CP are they now, and about how many game sessions did it take them to get there? if you have an approx number of CP per session thats what Im looking for, along with starting points.

Your making me really curious :)

Good question. I actually meant this thread as a general principle that can apply to more than one campaign. But here's one campaign example:

In the Citadel's Shadow II campaign in the world of Edyleine, students and workers are trying to live their everyday lives. But they've run into bullies, brawlers, green bears, giant bees, a hostile magical rat king, an animated grabbing bridge, inter-dimensional beings, etc.

One PC began as 155 points (150 beginning points, with the founding GM giving a 5-point bonus for starting with a written character story because he wanted to encourage that). That PC earns usually about 2 points per session. It's now over 200 points, with over 40 unspent. That PC I don't particularly want increasing much more in point total as it wouldn't fit the character concept or the general campaign.

Another PC who's appeared in the same campaign is Unaging and travels from world to world, dimension to dimension, (and campaign to campaign). That one started as a 125-point PC in GURPS Third Edition before Fourth Edition existed, and long before that campaign began. That PC has a point total so high I don't want to talk about it--and I'm still looking for more points (new worlds mean new Languages, Cultural Familiarities, Area Knowledge, Laws, adding the same skills but at different Tech Levels, etc.).

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by Dalin

Note that the example you quoted was from Ultraviolet, not me.

Oops! Thanks for pointing out my goof. Hopefully I got it fixed!

[AlexanderHowl]

Disadvantages can be limited by Basic without the needless complexity of adding 'Not Disadvantage'. If I take Lecherousness (12-; Women Only, -20%) as a bisexual, I will probably experience -12 CP worth of problems. It would be ludicrous to suggest that it should only be worth -3 CP (which is the effect of requiring the addition of 'Not Lecherousness' with Accessibility (Men Only, -20%) [12]).

[dataweaver]

More generally, the system of trait modifiers is one that's intended to be used sparingly; and even when it's appropriate to use it (which is primarily when creating Abilities and occasionally their Disadvantage counterparts) the more complex a trait build is, the less reliable the resulting total is.

[Micah Davis]

If I'm looking toward advancing a character who's basically where I feel they should be, most disadvantages are a great place to look at expanding from.
• A character with most control roll disadvantages is bound to meet people in their general pursuit of it - There are usually at least one or two contact groups and for some traits, like Charitable, the number of potential allies, contacts, or patrons you might acquire is practically limitless.
• Similarly, a character with any disadvantage can pick up at least 4 points in related "everyman" skills or traits that emerge from that disadvantage, to better either live with it (e.g. Games for Compulsive Gambler or Less Sleep for a workaholic) or implement it (e.g. Theology/Philosophy and Higher Purpose for Vows, Obsessions, Codes of Honor, and Fanaticism)
• Social Stigma and Intolerance are both natural organizing loci in the real world - Many, many political machines have been powered by one or the other, making them admirable sources of Allies, Patrons, Contacts, or Claims to Hospitality. And most people within such machines will pick up Savior Faire, Politics, and Current Affairs.

Veterans in many settings will have solutions to handling recurring problems.
• Common Sense, Danger Sense, and Intuition don't change the character's nature (unless you have Impulsive) but they make the character more "veteran" in that they make better decisions and have a better general gut sense of the situation.
• In any setting where the law frowns on trespassing and violence, main characters would do well to pick up Legal Immunity with Accessibility (Informal, Local) or Ally (Fixer) or (Lawyer) or Patron (Local Judge/Lord). Especially if they're Honest.
• Characters who might wind up spending a long time laid up from injury should pick up Tenure, if they've ever bailed out their boss.
• If you don't like keeping up with your equipment, a Gizmo or three is always handy.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

2 CP is not sufficient for an average person to do any Average Income job. That is the person who has a major screwup every few weeks and will likely be the first person fired during a downturn in business. The average person needs 8 CP to really be considered competent, as they will only then have a major screwup every few months.

Exactly my problem with the set up for jobs in gurps. I can't imagine that most people I've worked with somehow got 8pts into their work skill in under a month.

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Real life has a natural decay of skills that aren't used and physical ability that isn't used frequently for anyone past 25ish years old. In particular, physical skills and abilities deteriorate faster and require more work to maintain or improve the older you get. GURPS doesn't model this at all, making it just as easy for a 60 year old to maintain or improve their athletic ability as it is for an 18 year old.

I feel Horizontal Growth does part of this. If there's a skill that just doesn't fit on your sheet anymore, take those points away. As for aging, I do agree the rules are very cinematic, especially for anyone over 50.

Originally Posted by Dalin

Before each upcoming session, I always note what the point level is. Whether or not you were there last time or are starting a new character or whatever, you can use up to that many points

I do something very similar, but I also have players note what points they spend that aren't on the sheet. This makes it clear when adding things up if a mistake was made somewhere.

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

You had a number of good examples--thanks! I'm only quoting that one because, in a supers campaign where I did feel the PC was where I wanted him, I did buy Extra Life. My fundamental character concept included "I am alive." lol

Honestly, saving points up for Unkillable* 3 (Mortal) and some form of Regeneration (Only While Dead) to have 'infinite' Extra Lives isn't a terrible plan. Plus you have those points to buy Extra Life now if you die before getting there.

*In one campaign Unkillable 3 had a variant feature that instead of having to wait to recover, you are dead for the rest of the campaign but are guaranteed to be fine next campaign. Essentially, you are dead for purposes of this session's adventure but will be back for the next. I felt the upsides and downsides balanced out. If you did this, you don't need Regen. It basically lets you fail without having to give your character up.

[AlexanderHowl]

That is why most businesses anticipate that it takes two years before a worker without previous experience gets up to speed. Anyone who thinks that a worker without previous experience will get up to speed in less time than that is going to end up disappointed by most people (unless it is a really easy job). Of course, people who are naturally gifted will pick up the necessary skills more quickly.