Dungeon Fantasy or just Fantasy?

[sieurin]

Mind you, at the same time as the really old grognards will brag about fighting their way with only one Charm Person and a dagger through kill-the-players-dungeons designed by Old Nick themselves, they were also mainly playing a game where there was a limit on the number of times a character could return from the dead, many rules explictily stated that wishes couldnt help certain problems, and who published religious supplements where the main goal was to give you the hit points of Thor in case you needed to fight him. It was rather schizo. :)

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Phaelen Bleux

I am pretty opposed to the hack-til-its-over style of play which is more or less DF (sheesh, just play a video game). However (...)

It's not the same. It's still a roleplaying game, even if it's strongly focused into combat & exploration -more or less as so many other RPGs and settings.

Also, GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is getting more roleplaying "depth" with each further release. The features, ideas, etc... added into the line, installment after installment, are increasingly suited for more serious gaming if you want.

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Though LT is going to have vast quantities of rules about and examples of weapons and armor, I think that DF will retain considerable relevance for fantasy campaigns precisely because LT limits itself to reality. Even in a vaguely historical or "realistic" fantasy campaign, there may be magically-produced unbreakable materials, materials which neutralize magic, and so on. DF has those; LT won't.

I see this answer as very right and suitable. Thanks.

[Bruno]

Old school bards, paladins, and monks (which may not be 100% "original flavor" but certainly are very very old classes in the history of D&D) were all about the special funky powers.

The AD&D class kits and eleventybillion character class varients featured screaming feature creep.

Every new set of spells had power creep. Magic items have been notorious for decades.

Things haven't changed much at all when you get down to it.

[pawsplay]

So how many hit points does a DF fighter have?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

So how many hit points does a DF fighter have?

The "Knight" template has 14 HP at minimum and could have up to HP 23 if the player spends all of his available Advantage points on ST and HP.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

So how many hit points does a DF fighter have?

It depends of some factors (gigantic barbarians usually have more than knights), but my first DF human warrior had 13 (at 250 character points).

[Azinctus]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Is it [...] just, "GURPS in the dungeon, turned up to 11?" Assuming I was not interested in the more munchkiny aspects but I was interested in, for instance, a Mystara conversion to GURPS, would I find it useful?

I have 20 years and five editions of D&D experience. My first really successful campaign as DM was in Mystara. I found GURPS Fantasy to be an excellent book but it did not answer many critical questions when I moved to GURPS.

How much archer skill? Which cinematic options? What level of magery? How much and what kind of treasure? I muddled through my first few GURPS fantasy campigns by trial and error (oops did someone just push that archer off a building, but he was the best of the heroes, only he could defeat a dragon in three seconds by shooting it in the eye*).

Dungeon Fantasy answers all those questions very neatly. It gives the GM a balanced game that plays very much like D&D in general. It doesn't emulate a particular edition of D&D, or D&D at all, that would be silly, it is its own beast and like D&D its world is assumed in many rules and templates (don't want elves? Then be prepared to veto character choices and change the names of randomly rolled treasure).

When I played D&D I always wanted more than hack and slash. One of my first D&D DMing experiences was a murder mystery and from age 10 I was aware that D&D lacks realism. That's why I changed to GURPS (only took me 20 years to find it). GURPS, out of the box, lacks heroism and Dungeon Fantasy helps put that heroism back in. And, of course, it is simplicity itself to put the realism into Dungeon Fantasy, just relax the disadvantage limit and tell everyone to buy appearance, status, etc.

In some way every one of my campaigns is trying to recapture the glory of that first Mystara campaign. Now that I have Dungeon Fantasy my GURPS fantasy is coming close again**.


*In DF eye shooting is common, but among the array of controlled carnage a DF party can launch its nothing special. Your dragons just need tougher eyes.

** Next I only have to find the happy innocence of youth, does SJ sell that?

[mlangsdorf]

My notes for the dragons in my DF campaign include around 100-200 levels of DR (Fully Ablative, Forcefield). That'll force the PCs to actually engage it for a round or 3 before the Scout shoots it in the eyeball and kills it.

[Bruno]

Shame that it looks like I won't be bringing a giant morning-star and axe wielding minotaur to that fight. Possibly an army of zombies though :D

[Mailanka]

Dungeon Fantasy is a game about hacking and slashing, much as D&D is.

D&D fans will point out that you can, in fact, have a deep and interesting role-playing experience that has nothing to do with hacking and slashing, it's just that the rules offer a bare minimum support for this. Most of the depth of D&D focuses on running around dungeons, killing monsters and taking their stuff.

Most of the focus of DF fixates on the same thing. This is the purpose of Dungeon Fantasy. However, it is supported by a ruleset, GURPS, that does contain rules that allow deep intrigue and seduction and etcetera, because GURPS supports everything.

You want to play a game like D&D only "more," Dungeon Fantasy is not a bad place to start.