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Old 10-15-2013, 04:31 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default Gambling in 2100?

Greetings, all!

I'm wondering: I've occasionally seen the Gambling skill mentioned in THS context, but is gambling even alive in 2100? Given the ubiquitous computing, there just doesn't seem to be a way for odds of a given game not being very clearly known to anyone caring enough to play. And given VIIs and Infomorphs, there's basically no way to ensure that a player isn't resorting to card-counting for 21, or a NAI with high Perception and Body Language for something like Poker, or risk/payoff calculations for something else.

I suppose Gambling might've retreated to narrower niches, such as betting on the potential winners of various competitions.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

Casinos can ban electronic assistance in 2100 as easily as they do now (maybe even easier with ubiquitous surveillance).
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Casinos can ban electronic assistance in 2100 as easily as they do now (maybe even easier with ubiquitous surveillance).
How? Let's say Caine the Ghost or CSAF the SAI or Kitsos the regular guy goes to a casino. Figuring whether Caine is talking to his NAI is kinda problematic without being given full read access . . . and that's a lot to demand. It's even worse with CSAF, since he's not using an AI, he is an AI, and banning someone based on AIness is grounds for serious discrimination charges (in jurisdictions where AIs are citizens). With Kitsos, the only 'softer' way to do this is to demand that he shuts down his VII . . . which seems be about as intrusive and unusual in 2100 as a strip-search in 2012.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
How? Let's say Caine the Ghost or CSAF the SAI or Kitsos the regular guy goes to a casino. Figuring whether Caine is talking to his NAI is kinda problematic without being given full read access . . . and that's a lot to demand. It's even worse with CSAF, since he's not using an AI, he is an AI, and banning someone based on AIness is grounds for serious discrimination charges (in jurisdictions where AIs are citizens). With Kitsos, the only 'softer' way to do this is to demand that he shuts down his VII . . . which seems be about as intrusive and unusual in 2100 as a strip-search in 2012.
Nevada isn't a place where AIs have citizenship. Caine can be asked to leave just like a normal card counter is now. Same thing with Kitsos really.

Also AIs have Honesty, which should keep them from cheating in casinos, and keep them from helping you cheat too.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Nevada isn't a place where AIs have citizenship. Caine can be asked to leave just like a normal card counter is now. Same thing with Kitsos really.
So it's basically a case where a huge percentage of consistently good players will be asked out almost immediately on suspicion of using such things? Seems like a business model which will cause a lot of backlash among the remaining customers, since it's hard to prove who counts/AI-counts and who doesn't.

(Also, I realise that Nevada isn't such a place, but other places are. Honesty may indeed stop AIs from using their Mathematical Ability, though I wonder if such demands are even legal. It's also interesting how it will be interpreted as applied to Sigmas.)
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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So it's basically a case where a huge percentage of consistently good players will be asked out almost immediately on suspicion of using such things?
This is already true of Blackjack in casinos in 2013.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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This is already true of Blackjack in casinos in 2013.
It's probably significantly less common, since being able to do it with such precision requires some skill/discipline/dedication/etc.; in 2100, everyone can do it with his/her/its VII (and do it better than an average baseline human), so there are likely a lot more people actually doing it, thus more people caught doing it and more false positives.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Greetings, all!

I'm wondering: I've occasionally seen the Gambling skill mentioned in THS context, but is gambling even alive in 2100? Given the ubiquitous computing, there just doesn't seem to be a way for odds of a given game not being very clearly known to anyone caring enough to play. And given VIIs and Infomorphs, there's basically no way to ensure that a player isn't resorting to card-counting for 21, or a NAI with high Perception and Body Language for something like Poker, or risk/payoff calculations for something else.

I suppose Gambling might've retreated to narrower niches, such as betting on the potential winners of various competitions.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
I'd imagine gambling in some context is alive and well in the setting. It seems to be pretty ingrained human tendency. It's been around practically since the beginning and I don't see it ceasing to exist in the next 100 yrs. There are probably restrictions on electronic aids like today and AI likely prohibited in some fashion. OTOH. would most AI care too baring the need for quick income? And would it be "discrimination" anymore than disallowing someone from using their cybershell in an endurance race against organic competitors? "Transhuman" adjusted laws are going to cut both ways so having an "unreasonable" advantage due t state or enhancements might be acceptable grounds from being barred from a competition or activity.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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I'd imagine gambling in some context is alive and well in the setting. It seems to be pretty ingrained human tendency. It's been around practically since the beginning and I don't see it ceasing to exist in the next 100 yrs. There are probably restrictions on electronic aids like today and AI likely prohibited in some fashion. OTOH. would most AI care too baring the need for quick income? And would it be "discrimination" anymore than disallowing someone from using their cybershell in an endurance race against organic competitors? "Transhuman" adjusted laws are going to cut both ways so having an "unreasonable" advantage due t state or enhancements might be acceptable grounds from being barred from a competition or activity.
Well, transhumanism was basically what brought down the Olympics in THS, and reduced interest in spectator sports overall. And I wonder if rulings like the one in New Jersey would be more common on the path from 2012 to 2100.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:59 AM   #10
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Well, transhumanism was basically what brought down the Olympics in THS, and reduced interest in spectator sports overall. And I wonder if rulings like the one in New Jersey would be more common on the path from 2012 to 2100.
What ruling in New Jersey?
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