Mountains, hills & gullies?

[Izzy_B]

Working on a scenario that is very map dependent and replicates a part of the world where mountains, hills and gullies are involved. Since none of these terrain types are currently in any official rule book I'd come up with the following but then realized it would be a good idea to check here to see if this was already a solved problem.

3.03 Terrain. The map has terrain features not covered under general rules.
3.03.01 Mountains. Mountains are impassible to all units except infantry. Infantry units may only move one hex at a time within mountains. Entering a mountain hex completes an infantry movement phase.
3.03.02 Hills. Hills are not vehicle friendly. Use all Swamp rules for units in a hex with hills.
3.03.03 Wadi. These gullies are shown by hexes with ridges on both sides. Ridge hexside rules apply when crossing into a wadi. Units within a gully can move along the path of the gully without penalty.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by Izzy_B

3.03.03 Wadi. These gullies are shown by hexes with ridges on both sides. Ridge hexside rules apply when crossing into a wadi. Units within a gully can move along the path of the gully without penalty.

What's the value/purpose of a Wadi, and how is it different from clear with ridges on both sides?

[Izzy_B]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

What's the value/purpose of a Wadi, and how is it different from clear with ridges on both sides?

It is "just" clear with ridges on both sides. In the area I'm thinking of the gullies are deep enough that they might or might not work for a natural camouflage or added defense value. Haven't got that far yet and again I wanted to see if this was a solved problem or not.

[ColBosch]

You might've noticed that Ogre only assigns extra defense to units in particularly dense terrain - cities, primarily, though infantry get bonuses in a few others. This is because weapons are generally assumed to always hit (being computer-aimed nukes, after all) but in a city there might be just enough concrete between the target and the blast to mitigate its effects. You're not going to get that in a wadi.

[Izzy_B]

Originally Posted by ColBosch

You might've noticed that Ogre only assigns extra defense to units in particularly dense terrain - cities, primarily, though infantry get bonuses in a few others. This is because weapons are generally assumed to always hit (being computer-aimed nukes, after all) but in a city there might be just enough concrete between the target and the blast to mitigate its effects. You're not going to get that in a wadi.

Point well taken. I can scratch any defense bonus without altering the scenario but the main issue is still if my thoughts on hills & mountains are sane or not.

[Desert Scribe]

I like the movement rules for infantry in mountain hexes and armor in hill hexes.

How do hills and mountains affect the defense of units in that terrain? For infantry, I suggest they double it and triple it, respectively. You could also have hills give double defense to armor units to account for line-of-sight issues.

Speaking of line-of-sight, do mountain hexes block LOS? They did in the Iron Mountain scenario in The Ogre Book.

Agree with ColBosch about wadis. Besides, at the scale of the game (1 hex = 1,500 meters) I don't think a wadi would be visible--unless you put it on the borders of hexes, and treat it like a river in that certain units can only cross at the start of their movement phase.

[Izzy_B]

Originally Posted by Desert Scribe

I like the movement rules for infantry in mountain hexes and armor in hill hexes.

How do hills and mountains affect the defense of units in that terrain? For infantry, I suggest they double it and triple it, respectively. You could also have hills give double defense to armor units to account for line-of-sight issues.

Speaking of line-of-sight, do mountain hexes block LOS? They did in the Iron Mountain scenario in The Ogre Book.

Agree with ColBosch about wadis. Besides, at the scale of the game (1 hex = 1,500 meters) I don't think a wadi would be visible--unless you put it on the borders of hexes, and treat it like a river in that certain units can only cross at the start of their movement phase.

Have not yet figured on additional defense values for infantry in hills & mountains. I like your suggestions and will try those out.

Line of sight definitely made a difference in that scenario but for the map I'm developing mountains are only a feature on near the edge of the map so Iron Mountain rule wouldn't come into play.

Regarding wadis I think you understood my intent.
https://imgur.com/a/0MKZIAe

In the linked file,
* the GEV can move north or south but not east or west.
* The infantry unit in 1412 can move any direction.
* The Ogre can not move into the mountains.
* The infantry unit in 2215 can move one hex in any direction and receives some level of defense bonus due to being in a mountain

Note that no hills are shown.

However about wadis and game scale, if we are to believe that all rivers take up a whole hex of 1,500 meters, then we can equally believe that a gully does. Neither scale nor rules are perfect but as Grandmother B taught me, you dance with the one that brought you.

[Desert Scribe]

Sorry, I meant stream, not river, regarding wadis.

[Tim Kauffman]

Originally Posted by Izzy_B

Mountains. Mountains are impassible to all units except infantry. Infantry units may only move one hex at a time within mountains. Entering a mountain hex completes an infantry movement phase.

In addition to a full hex Mountain, I'd like to also see hex-side Mountains. For full hex Mountains you could use clear terrain hex overlays stacked two high. For hex-side Mountains you could use the "Ridges" overlays to represent them. When placed on top of a Ridge on the official maps, or when stacked two high elsewhere.
Heres a link to the idea:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...posted-public/

Basically Mountains are Ridge terrain that can only be moved into by Infantry. Where Ridges can be moved through with Infantry and OGREs.

What about Mountain that is impassable to all units. This would represent clifflike terrain, like the Grand Canyon for example.

Originally Posted by Izzy_B

Hills. Hills are not vehicle friendly. Use all Swamp rules for units in a hex with hills.

Maybe to help set this apart from a Swamp, say the Hills also give a defensive bonus like Revetments. This would be a full hex terrain.

Originally Posted by Izzy_B

Wadi. These gullies are shown by hexes with ridges on both sides. Ridge hexside rules apply when crossing into a wadi. Units within a gully can move along the path of the gully without penalty.

Scale and size wise, I think these would be much smaller than what would span the distance of a full hex in OGRE. That's Grand Canyon sort of size and we already have Ridges that can be used to represent that sort of terrain. Maybe have these more like roads in that they would have road layouts on full hexes like roads, but represent gullies, wadis that can be used like a road. If a unit is in the gully it gains a defensive bonus for the gully unlike when on a road.

Just an observation, in OGRE MINIATURES, Page 24 we have Revetments and Walls that offer defensive bonuses.

[selenite]

I like the full hex mountains. Really, if it's not big enough to take up a hex, is it really a mountain?

Hills make sense. I presume it's effectively swamp without the defensive bonus for infantry?

And as much as I like giving infantry bonuses, mountains are not necessarily good defensive terrain.