Ogre Computer Game

[wolf90]

I read it as Lead Foot too, and thus my interest in the scenario!

D.

[jfleisher]

I'm thinking Pbft equals play by face time?

[tomc]

Originally Posted by jfleisher

I'm thinking Pbft equals play by face time?

Not a bad idea, but Wolf90, Granite Penguin and Andrew got it. I'll post what I've got after I've played it a few (many?) more times.

We now return you to your unintentionally hijacked thread...

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by offsides

I'd also like to make this as configurable/hackable as possible, since so many things in ODE (and Ogre in general) are tweakable in one way or another, it would be great to emulate that in the game. Plus, it would definitely make it easier to accommodate updates down the line as the rules expand.

I think there's three main things to hack:

1) The look-and-feel - skinning the game, already pretty common.
2) The decisions a player makes. That lets us hack new AIs for the game. It's thematically vital and really fun to fiddle with. Possibly also a way to port the front end to new platforms.
3) The rules of the game. That means altering what the game engine allows, which is probably half or more of the traffic on this forum.

I think that lets us hack everything...

Skinning the game is already part of the common art.

I think 2) and 3) could be done with two sides of the same interface. It'd be a lot for AurochDigital to commit to up front, but would pay off down the line.

[GranitePenguin]

This is waaaaaayy out in left field, and certainly nothing that should be any kind of priority, but I'd like to see the ability to create our own Unit AIs and let them compete against each other. There was an old Playstation 1 game called Carnage Heart where you designed the AI as well as the hardware for mech-type units. The AI interface was similar to Lego Mindstorms' graphical block connecting. If you've never seen it before, it's worth a look.

What made the game unique was the fact you let your designs loose on the battlefield and how your program ran is what determined the outcome. All the battles are hands-off. It would be interesting to be able to share AI designs to see if your Ogre is smarter than someone else's.

[Netzilla]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

This is waaaaaayy out in left field, and certainly nothing that should be any kind of priority, but I'd like to see the ability to create our own Unit AIs and let them compete against each other. There was an old Playstation 1 game called Carnage Heart where you designed the AI as well as the hardware for mech-type units. The AI interface was similar to Lego Mindstorms' graphical block connecting. If you've never seen it before, it's worth a look.

What made the game unique was the fact you let your designs loose on the battlefield and how your program ran is what determined the outcome. All the battles are hands-off. It would be interesting to be able to share AI designs to see if your Ogre is smarter than someone else's.

Sounds like the old Omega and RobotWar games from back in the 80s. They were pretty cool.

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

This is waaaaaayy out in left field, and certainly nothing that should be any kind of priority, but I'd like to see the ability to create our own Unit AIs and let them compete against each other.
...
It would be interesting to be able to share AI designs to see if your Ogre is smarter than someone else's.

Once you've got an API for a player (game state and events come out, moves go in) it's pretty natural to build two bot players and let them compete. I don't think it's way out.

My 7-year-old plays with Tynker, built on either Blocky or Sketch (which might be the same thing), and programs some fairly impressive logic. She has a lot of fun with it. I think she'd be able to build a play-book style AI for both sides of the basic scenario if she stayed focused long enough. (I'd like to try my hand, too, but I've learned to type, and prefer functional programming more than the imperative style Tynker teaches.)

That might even be a short-cut to getting a good AI to support solo play. It might be the only way for some of the more complex scenarios.

[Tim Kauffman]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

This is waaaaaayy out in left field, and certainly nothing that should be any kind of priority, but I'd like to see the ability to create our own Unit AIs and let them compete against each other. There was an old Playstation 1 game called Carnage Heart where you designed the AI as well as the hardware for mech-type units. The AI interface was similar to Lego Mindstorms' graphical block connecting. If you've never seen it before, it's worth a look.

What made the game unique was the fact you let your designs loose on the battlefield and how your program ran is what determined the outcome. All the battles are hands-off. It would be interesting to be able to share AI designs to see if your Ogre is smarter than someone else's.

Originally Posted by dwalend

Once you've got an API for a player (game state and events come out, moves go in) it's pretty natural to build two bot players and let them compete. I don't think it's way out.

That might even be a short-cut to getting a good AI to support solo play. It might be the only way for some of the more complex scenarios.

Awesome. :) Descartes Revolution for the win!

[tomc]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

What made the game unique was the fact you let your designs loose on the battlefield and how your program ran is what determined the outcome. All the battles are hands-off. It would be interesting to be able to share AI designs to see if your Ogre is smarter than someone else's.

If the OGRE AI is of the "learning" variety (neural network, GA hybrid, support vector machine, etc.) then that's how you'd teach them. You'd make/breed a few that were decent, then build an automated system that pits them against each other and tweaks the winners. Lather, rinse, repeat, and you've got Excercise K in real life.

[AurochDigital]

Originally Posted by tomc

I'm holding out for PbFT. (I've got a scenario in mind.)

I'll be interested in reading any designers notes on the AI. Stacking and overruns bumps up the number of choices by an order or magnitude or two. Playing something like "Ceasefire Collapse", with lots of units on either side, probably bumps it up a few more.

We're looking at the best way to share design notes with you all at the moment. Yes it will have stacking units which is one of the main UI challenges of the development at the moment, but one we are working hard at!

Originally Posted by tomc

Is there a good general heuristic? The Origin Systems version used one, but that approach might not work for something as ambitious as this seems to be.

We've played it (of course) but as we're doing the GEV rules too, that have much more complexity (Overun!) that needs to be handled, so we're approaching the game with a clean slate really.