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Old 10-04-2013, 01:07 PM   #71
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Powergaming in roleplaying games can take several forms. One form is the deliberate creation of optimal player characters (PCs), with the aim of maximising the power the player wields in the game world by way of their avatar. This is known as min-maxing, due to the practice of balancing the PC's abilities through maximising desirable or "powerful" traits while minimising underpowered or unuseful traits. Such characters often draw criticism for not fitting the theme and tone of the game world or for being difficult to develop appropriate challenges for. Another form of power-gaming involves a focus on acquiring power during game progression, often by acquiring powerful equipment or unusual abilities. This lends itself to gameplay which is materialistic (and often, in the context of the game world, arguably amoral) and can frustrate other players who are looking to interact with the game world and the game story and not merely acquire loot.
None of this applies to my character.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #72
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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And can we please get a basic answer on the other question:

All other factors being equal, if the non-flyer is grappling the flyer, is it the Grappling rules preventing the flyer from taking off with the grappler, or the "super-inertia"?

I really do want to know this.
That question doesn't even work.

Obviously, the grappling rules are necessary to prevent the flier from taking of with the grappler. Without them there would be no constraint.

The Basic grappling rules shut you right down based on the ST ratio without any reference to weight. You could stop right there. But GURPS is a toolbox. If the logic of 2000 pounds of cling-on keeping the floater down is unsatisfactory, one can rework that bit to find something that plays better. In that case, it's likely important to consider how the big guy's strength works in more detail. Super-inertia could be part of that.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #73
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Default Re: grappling a flier

Still want to know if the Grapple rules actually do stop a flier from making off with a Grappler.

Word of God, please?
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:10 PM   #74
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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That question doesn't even work.

Obviously, the grappling rules are necessary to prevent the flier from taking of with the grappler. Without them there would be no constraint.

The Basic grappling rules shut you right down based on the ST ratio without any reference to weight. You could stop right there. But GURPS is a toolbox. If the logic of 2000 pounds of cling-on keeping the floater down is unsatisfactory, one can rework that bit to find something that plays better. In that case, it's likely important to consider how the big guy's strength works in more detail. Super-inertia could be part of that.
However, if the character had massless ST, Grappling would not shut someone's Flight down, right?

Because physics has to have SOME say in it.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:13 PM   #75
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Still want to know if the Grapple rules actually do stop a flier from making off with a Grappler.

Word of God, please?
Kromm has answered this multiple times. Just read any of his several posts.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:21 PM   #76
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Kromm has answered this multiple times. Just read any of his several posts.
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The GM is free to say that someone with ST 200 but just a ton of mass is limited to ST commensurate with mass to resist such things . . . that's about ST 25. But then he has to give out some compensatory benefit for the loss of the value of 175 levels of ST, which was priced assuming that all the ST works even against being airlifted, because the ST comes with mass. One fair benefit would be to say that such a character only counts as having HP 25 when he falls or is slammed into something, which will make such collisions much less painful; in that case, the flying character with ST 60 could lift off with him (ST 25 < ST 60/2), but wouldn't hurt him nearly as much with a body slam (1/8 the damage dice that 200 HP would suggest).
So ... yes.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:23 PM   #77
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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However, if the character had massless ST, Grappling would not shut someone's Flight down, right?

Because physics has to have SOME say in it.
Kromm has answered this quite extensively. You really should read that.

Physics doesn't so much have a say in it as possibly inform the rules you use.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:37 PM   #78
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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Kromm has answered this quite extensively. You really should read that.

Physics doesn't so much have a say in it as possibly inform the rules you use.
I prefer to use physics whenever possible.

I know physics.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:48 PM   #79
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I prefer to use physics whenever possible.

I know physics.
I'm quite fond of physics, but physics makes a pretty poor game system.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:00 PM   #80
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Default Re: grappling a flier

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So ... yes.
OR no, he could treat it as the Full ST 200 if the brick is useing Super Inetia or zero-point TK.

answer was punted back to How did the GM define the ST - weight difference.

He gave extensive grounds to support either GM's call based on how they defined the NPC
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