[LT] Gun costs

[Imperial]

Hi, maybe some-one else also has this problem.
I need realistic costs for guns, for 3-4TL , they need to be afordable to the upper class people Status1+ , not to every peasant as in the book... So I reasonable cost modifier would be appreciated.
Thank you.

[vicky_molokh]

I thought cheapness was the whole point of switching to guns.

Either way, what are the starting gear budgets for a peasant and for a noble in your campaign?

[Dinadon]

Most peasants are going to have 80% of their starting wealth locked up in assets, giving one of average wealth $200 to spend at TL 3, or $400 at TL 4. Then factor in the fact that peasants often aren't at average wealth, but are more often struggling or poor. This drops the amount of cash available to $100/$200, or $40/$80 respectively. With TL3/4 guns costing around $150-200, this makes them a significant investment for someone with average wealth, let alone anyone with struggling or poor wealth, which would be most peasants.

[Imperial]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I thought cheapness was the whole point of switching to guns.

I thought it was because it required less training.

Take note that that it's 3-4TL ,so guns and pistols are fairly new.

Cost of living for a street person (-2status) is 100$ , he gets about 150$ per month income ,so in 2-3 months he has a gun. Thats not right in my point of view.

I'm thinking about x4 cost, so a status 1 merchant ,needs to devote his whole moths income for a gun.

I'm asuming taxes are included in the cost of living ,right?

[Gurps Fan]

At least in historical Sengoku-period Japan, peasants actually could afford teppo, just like many other weapons. That's why Toyotomi Hideyoshi needed to set up a new weapons control law (1588) to prevent peasants from rebelling!

I think if there were something that made weapons for high-society people expensive, it was solely an issue of decoration. Teppo/tandzutsu for wealthy samurai were often ornamented with engraving; those for rank-and-file soldiers were not. If you are the GM, you can always declare that every gun in your gameworld has +3 Styling (CF +9) option.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by Imperial

Cost of living for a street person (-2status) is 100$ , he gets about 150$ per month income ,so in 2-3 months he has a gun. Thats not right in my point of view.

If you need to save for 2-3 months to the last penny to buy something, isn't that thing "expensive"?

[gjc8]

IRC, in addition to the gun, historically powder was a significant expense at TL4.

[Imperial]

Originally Posted by Lupo

If you need to save for 2-3 months to the last penny to buy something, isn't that thing "expensive"?

Well the guy in my example isn't even a peasant , he's a homeless person ,so things that are expensive to him aren't that expensive to peasant (-1 status) or even less so to an ordinary citizen ( Status 0)

Look at it from another angle , which requires more materials and work ,an average pistol or an average long knife? Same cost, BS.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Imperial

Look at it from another angle , which requires more materials and work ,an average pistol or an average long knife? Same cost, BS.

In real history, firearms were used because they were incredibly cheap, easy to use and available to everyone compared to earlier weapons.

There was less need for skilled craftsmanship and good steel than a sword (which a long knife sort of is). A low-tech pistol is one that operates at a fairly low pressures and doesn't require high-quality steel. It's basically a hollow tube with some way to light a fire in it.

If your campaign is set in the real world, you can justify increasing the cost of firearms during the time of their introduction. If fewer smiths know how to make one than know how to build swords, then the price will be higher. But this will hold true only for a short time, until more smiths learn how simple it is to build a musket or pistol. Unlike a proper Good quality sword, a village blacksmith could probably build a working matchlock firearm. So the prices will go down to the Low-Tech values fairly quickly, certainly as soon as firearms have become widely available.

If the campaign is set in a fantasy world, arbitrarily declare that unlike in our world, firearms are not weapons of the unwashed masses. Declare that legal restrictions exist on their sale and construction and/or who may carry them. Decide that all firearms are elaborately decorated. Use 'Luxury Pricing' (GURPS Low-Tech p. 37) to set the Status that you think ought to have access to guns in your world.

[RogerBW]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In real history, firearms were used because they were incredibly cheap, easy to use and available to everyone compared to earlier weapons.

My understanding is that training time was also a consideration - a longbowman had to be brought up to it from childhood, while an arquebusier could be trained in a few months.