Spinal Mount rules

[swordtart]

OK. As promised (threatened?).

Castrato by Swordtart:
Medium Cycle; Cycle chassis; Light suspension;
Small Cycle PP;
2 Hvy Duty Radial tires each with 5pt Plastic Wheel Guards;
Plastic Spoiler;
Driver w/BA+ABV.
Pillion Passenger + BA + ABV; DBGS + Scope;
GS Ammo x20 (2 in gun, 10 in Pillion ABV, 8 in Rider ABV)

Component armour. 10 points PP, 10 Points Rider, 10 Points Pillion

Cost: $7,105, Wgt: 1,097,
HC: 1 (2), Top Speed: 95, Accel: 5.

It's not an optimised design, I was working quickly from the Yamamoto, stripping off the BC and then refactoring.

It is now a Medium rather than Heavy since it didn't need all that space and the plant also doesn't need SCs to maintaing the performance.

I had to lose the windshell since it messes up pillions, but added in a spoiler and component armour on every internal component to compensate. I believe This makes it more durable than the original.

If you don't agree passengers can fire from within CA then it can be removed leaving space to slope the armour instead (for an extra $33). This makes it a bit more durable overall at the cost of specific protection for the pillion).

As the BC was not AP, I kept the DBGS not AP as well. With only 1 differnce in the to hit for the BC vs GS I didn't bother laser guiding. The scope is directly equivalent to the SWC but I believe a dedicated gunner is worth at least a +1 over a bike where the rider has to split skills as he'll sensibly need at least one level in Cyclist (whereas my rider is Cyclist 2 and my pillion is Handgunner 2).

The big difference is of course the magazine. It is the same capacity (I need 2 rounds per firing). The difference is the reload time. The first shot is a wash (you go into battle loaded). The next shot is delayed by 2 turns for each of the first 5 reloads (since you can draw from your own ABV). My conops was that at this point you would drop back out of LOS and conduct an ABV to ABV transfer as the last 4 might take a bit longer as the rider needs to pass them to you (or you take then from directly form his ABV).

In addition the Castrato doesn't get to benefit from sustained fire unless it spends extra turns dry firing the scope. I would counter this with the fact that the Yamamoto doesn't get to dry fire at all, so it's likley the first few shots will be ranging ones.

Now this seems a mighty issue, but given the Yamamoto only has 10 points front armour, it depends on how many shots the Yamamoto can get off before it is eliminated. I suspect neither bike could really last that long, and you would be better cutting the Yamamoto's magazine to a more realistic half dozen shots (beefing up the armour with weight and cost saved).

The Yamamoto would probably then get 2 ranging shots and then get 3 of the remaining 4 on target and could flee the fight on turn 7.

The Castrato on the other hand would likey hit on its first shot (as it can dry fire the laser on approach and begin with full sustained fire bonus). It then needs to wait until turn 4 before it can fire again or turn 6 if it wants the sustained fire bonus.

Adding an extra barrel adds $1200 , but it makes the weapon a 3x2d weapon. This could tip the balance as on turn 7 it could unleash another 3x2d barrage with a very good chance of hitting with at least 2 of them.

Your 20 shots is only 6 reloads, but in this scenario you don't need that many. Sensibly you would might only carry 6 shots in total for reloads and use the remaining space for zero delay paint grenades to cover your retreat.
Hmm have to try it.

[juris]

Yes you are correct the Yamato's wave motion gun only needs 5 shots:

Yamato -- Heavy Cycle w/CA Frame, Light suspension, Small Cycle power plant w/SC, 2 Motorcycle Heavy-Duty Radial tires, Cycle Windshell w/10 pts extra Plastic armor, Cyclist w/SWC and BA, Blast Cannon Front w/5 shots HEAT, Plastic Armor: F16, B10, 2 5-pt Cycle Wheelguards, Acceleration 5, Top Speed 100, HC 1 (2 @60mph), 1299 lbs., $9862

You have improved a massively flawed insane joke design ;) Upgraded to HEAT ammo. This machine could possibly work in Div 10 cycle dueling as a one-shot kill bike

Originally Posted by swordtart

OK. As promised (threatened?).

Castrato by Swordtart:
Medium Cycle; Cycle chassis; Light suspension;
Small Cycle PP;
2 Hvy Duty Radial tires each with 5pt Plastic Wheel Guards;
Plastic Spoiler;
Driver w/BA+ABV.
Pillion Passenger + BA + ABV; DBGS + Scope;
GS Ammo x20 (2 in gun, 10 in Pillion ABV, 8 in Rider ABV)

Component armour. 10 points PP, 10 Points Rider, 10 Points Pillion

Cost: $7,105, Wgt: 1,097,
HC: 1 (2), Top Speed: 95, Accel: 5.



Your 20 shots is only 6 reloads, but in this scenario you don't need that many. Sensibly you would might only carry 6 shots in total for reloads and use the remaining space for zero delay paint grenades to cover your retreat.
Hmm have to try it.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by juris

This machine could possibly work in Div 10 cycle dueling as a one-shot kill bike

The few cycle events I managed to get NOVA to run, Flanking Shots were de rigeur; why bother with F and B shots, when one shot through the flank will disable, or outright kill, a bike? And for that, HRs with some sort of TC are going-away less expensive.

I have been shot at with a LG Triple-Barrel GS. It missed *all three shots*. (It helped that the player using it forgot to give his driver Handgunner skill....)

[swordtart]

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

The few cycle events I managed to get NOVA to run, Flanking Shots were de rigeur; why bother with F and B shots, when one shot through the flank will disable, or outright kill, a bike? And for that, HRs with some sort of TC are going-away less expensive.

If you are going for flank shots on a bike then a double barrel shotgun with hollow points is probably enough :).

My presumption was that you were looking for a heavy hitting weapon that you could take on the average commuter or courier vehicle (Div 10 VG1 standard, - <30 rear armour) and still look feeble enough not to scare them off. Many commuters are fitted with defensive weapons that can be fairly easily dodged but even those with direct weapons only tend to have an MG covering the rear and/or side arcs.

I think most people if they saw a lone cycle closing from the rear with no obvious vehicular weapons would not consider it enough of a threat to bother taking expensive evasive action until it actually took offensive action or got too close. Even at highway speeds a stern chase rarely imposes any significant speed modifiers and with the scope and a dedicated gunner the definition of close is probably less relevant than it taking offensive action.

We are probably in effective range at about the same time but whereas the bike is taking 4 x d6 every 4 phases the car is taking 3 x 2d6. In the first 4 phases the bike takes on average 14 points and takes no significant HS losses. In phase 1 the car takes on average 21 points damage and takes a d3 hazard. On phase 5, the car still isn't likely to breach the front armour let alone make any dents in the CA, but the bike inflicts another 21 damage and breaches passing 12 points through to the internals.

If at any point the car turns to attack head on, the bike turns and runs (off-road if possible). It drops paint defensively (the rider can do this leaving the pillion to reload).

If the bike used AP it would average 27 points in the first attack and with just a little luck it might breach with the first shot and completely eliminate the rear weaponry.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

My presumption was that you were looking for a heavy hitting weapon that you could take on the average commuter or courier vehicle (Div 10 VG1 standard, - <30 rear armour) and still look feeble enough not to scare them off.

For that: Bike with RR F; if tech allows smart links, add a sidecar with a RR; if HEAT ammo is available, add that as well. RRs are "small-bore projectile weapons", so don't look threatening; but two of them can really put a whammy on someone.

[swordtart]

43: Sure, but now you are comparing the cost of a heavy cycle and sidecar combo with a pair of RRs and a smart link vs the cost of an unarmed cycle with a pillion with a DBGS.

I wouldn't consider any vehicle with two weapons in the arc facing me to be low threat (even of they were small-bore) as you say that's likely to be at least 2d but up to 4d + adds for ammo. You could blow through conceal it all, but If I saw a cycle with a sidecar, I am going to presume you needed that space capacity for something.

It wasn't really a conversation on how do you make an effective attack bike, more a conversation on how credible the GS is as a cycle weapon. It is niche and you will need to manage your fight, but don't think it can be dismissed out of hand.

Consider also that the pillion can operate as a dragoon and fight from the ground. If he does so that to hit number drops hugely and make a one shot kill likely. He can still extract in seconds on the bike that is running next to him.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

It wasn't really a conversation on how do you make an effective attack bike, more a conversation on how credible the GS is as a cycle weapon.

[nod] The GS is an expensive piece of kit, even for a footslogger; and has a raft of issues when used by a passenger on a vehicle. For the $2-3K a GS costs, there are far-better anti-vehicle options.

I'd save the passenger-with-gun for stuff like tire-sniping, or taking side shots at bikes which don't have any sort of side armor (windshell, CA, etc.); and lean towards the AVR/HAVR, or VLAW/LAW, end of things. (I have a Light Cycle design where the "main gun" is a 1-sp./50-lb. cargo area with 12 GEs of LAWs or VLAWs....)

[swordtart]

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

[nod] The GS is an expensive piece of kit, even for a footslogger; and has a raft of issues when used by a passenger on a vehicle. For the $2-3K a GS costs, there are far-better anti-vehicle options.

I'd save the passenger-with-gun for stuff like tire-sniping, or taking side shots at bikes which don't have any sort of side armor (windshell, CA, etc.); and lean towards the AVR/HAVR, or VLAW/LAW, end of things. (I have a Light Cycle design where the "main gun" is a 1-sp./50-lb. cargo area with 12 GEs of LAWs or VLAWs....)

VLAW and LAW very cost ineffective (and highly unlikely to hit at anything other than point blank (and you can't afford to put a scope on 12 one-shot weapons). I'd concur with the HAVR as probably the best bang for buck especially as you can mount all the rifle accessories. It's still only a 1d+3 weapon though, not 4d.

A trike with 4 passengers all armed with tricked out HAVRs is quite a cheap gunship and as their side arcs also cover the front arc it can be a deadly forward volley. In addition as they are all sperate attacks with luck you can drop 12 HS in a single phase with a decent chance of causing a fishtail. That can prevent your opponent from shooting back (and fishtails at highway speed are often fatal even for heavily armed and armoured vehicles.

EDIT:

Rifleman by Swordtart:
Heavy Trike; Extra Heavy chassis; Heavy suspension;
Super Trike PP w/SCs and 10pt CA,
3 Solid Radial tires with HTMs, HD Shocks, HD Brakes.
Driver with 10pt CA + BA + ABV
4 Passenger each with BA +ABV + HAVR + Scope.
Passenger Compartment with 10pt CA

146 pts. Plastic (F: 27 R: 27 L: 27 B: 25 T: 25 U: 15);
1x10 pt. Plastic Guards F; 2x10 pt. Plastic Guards B;

Cost: $21,644, Wgt: 3,336 (24lb Cargo),
HC: 3, Top Speed: 100 (75), Accel: 5 (10).

The Rifleman now features BA and Flak jackets for all 4 passengers and the driver. Overall armour has been reduced and all passengers share the same CA. The 4 scoped HAVRs are also included in the price and weight.

The remaining 24lb can be used for an extra 3 points of armour, or dischargers or side arms* none of which are included in the base configuration.

Players using "glove box" encumbrance rules will have over 500lb of cargo capacity.

* Extended clips for the HAVR will give you similar firepower and endurance to an HMG at a fraction of the cost and weight.

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by swordtart

A trike with 4 passengers all armed with tricked out HAVRs is quite a cheap gunship and as their side arcs also cover the front arc it can be a deadly forward volley.

Did that back-when -- had a scenario set in a "Safe Zone", where the vehicles were all unarmed, and carried 10 pts. armor each side; rest of budget went to whatever the driver and passengers could carry.

It got ugly fast. :)

[juris]

A very underappreciated exploit in CW - that's how to take down choppers btw.

Originally Posted by swordtart

A trike with 4 passengers all armed with tricked out HAVRs is quite a cheap gunship and as their side arcs also cover the front arc it can be a deadly forward volley. In addition as they are all sperate attacks with luck you can drop 12 HS in a single phase with a decent chance of causing a fishtail. That can prevent your opponent from shooting back (and fishtails at highway speed are often fatal even for heavily armed and armoured vehicles.