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Old 08-30-2008, 04:47 AM   #1
dies irae
 
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Default [vessels] how to manage role

hello friends. i'm new in this forum and in nomine's universe.
i'll sure make many errors in writing, 'cause i'm not american, please be patient, i hope you'll understand and help me.

i want start a campaign as a master, but there are several things i don't understand about in nomine, it seems very difficult 'cause of all politicians and metaphysical matters.

by the way, this is my question:
how can a PC maintain a role and play adventures at the same time?

a try to explain with an example:
the manual say that if you have a policeman's role, you ARE a policeman (work in a police station, have your equipment, fellows, etc.)
but, i think, if you are a policeman, how can you go around the world for weeks or months to make adventures.. and don't be fired (so losing the role itself)?!
or, if you are a major league star, how can you miss training sessions or match? in this case are you forced to make adventures only when the season is over?

also, when celestials go to heaven or hell, the vessel goes to limbo.
then? what about the humans that know the vessel? they call police saying that a friend is vanished?

definitely, i can't understand how many and how a vessel must be REAL.. and how to manage it.

i hope you understood, and hope that they weren't stupid questions.

thank you very much, kisses from italy!
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Most celestials will have a role that fits what they will be doing. For example the police officer role would be great for a game that was going to take place in the same city for the most part. If you're going to be traveling the world then something that has reason to do that- maybe a PI for example or an Archiologist would be a better role. As for the vessel disapearing you don't do it in front of people that would care and don't stay long enough for them to think you have vanished and you should be fine.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:57 AM   #3
William
 
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

A Role does not take every hour of the day, but it takes some effort to maintain. Roles come in levels from Role/1 to Role/6. A Role/1 only requires a few hours' work every few days. A Role that involves a regular day job, such as policeman, will probably be a Role/3 at least. This is more useful to the angel, but it requires more work. The angel must show up every day on time, do his job, and stay connected to his human co-workers. He can still adventure in his off-hours or on vacations. He can also try to get assigned to police investigations that match his celestial duties. A major league baseball player may have a Role/5 or /6, and be very famous, and have almost no time for adventuring.

If he is going to be doing world travel, he either needs a Role that will allow him to do this, such as being a private charter pilot, or an independently wealthy man, or a migrant laborer.

When a celestial goes to Heaven or Hell, nothing happens to the memories or identity papers that are left behind. Assuming he left where he couldn't be seen, he can be there and back in a few hours with none of his human friends even knowing he was gone. They don't automatically get a sense that the celestial is "missing" from the world, just because he leaves.

I hope this helped.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Quote:
Originally Posted by William
He can still adventure in his off-hours or on vacations. He can also try to get assigned to police investigations that match his celestial duties.
Also its important to remember that angels and demons don't actually have to sleep, so they can put in their 8 hours of work to maintain their role, and then do the other work the rest of the time. If they need to adventure during the day, then have a Role that involves a night job.
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:33 PM   #5
JCD
 
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

alexondria and I are having a similar discussion right now. My take is slightly different.

Ashat the Demon has a cop car, a badge and a uniform. He may even have some Valpua Demon create a paper trail for him. He does NOT have a role. He pulls over a human and beats him up. To all intents and purposes, he LOOKS like a cop, but there is no acknowledgement of him being anything besides a stranger to fellow humans, and therefore the Symphony.

Henry the Angel holds a regular cop job. He stops at Joe's for lunch, he's dating Kristy, he has a spiffy locker that smells like sweat socks right next to his (mortal) partner's, and Mrs. Cravitz keeps trying to set him up with her daughter ("She perfect. A nice Jewish girl. Come over for dinner. We're having knish.") He has a Role of 6. The "faith" that all these mortals have in his existance MAY mute any damage he may do to the Symphony. So a role is Faith and Familiarity. The more you are a fixture in the lives of humans, the more of a role you have...but only for that particular vessel.

Not all roles are positive. Gnash, a nameless Djinn who has no "paper trail" (i.e. identity papers) and pays cash for a poor apartment, may have a role as "That Scary Dude who lives in 4B". A small role, but still there.

But to answer your question, a high status "millionaire" celestial who has a small role would be a recluse, i.e. someone out of the public view except as a name. With sufficient Songs, tethers and Portals to travel, one can do quite a bit and still maintain a "regular" Role.

I don't know that they ever established where vessels go when the Celestial "put's them away". I suppose Limbo is as good an answer as any.
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
But to answer your question, a high status "millionaire" celestial who has a small role would be a recluse, i.e. someone out of the public view except as a name.
Actually, this is impossible. To have a given Status attached to a Role, you have to have a Role level at least that high. See the In Nomine core book rules for Roles.
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:52 AM   #7
JCD
 
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
Actually, this is impossible. To have a given Status attached to a Role, you have to have a Role level at least that high. See the In Nomine core book rules for Roles.
Then the rules are wrong, or at least inflexible. I can see the justification: To BE a millionaire, one must have strong relationships, at least with your accountant and tax lawyer.

That said, what about a low role who "won" the lottery? Obviously, the designers hadn't encompassed such a situation? Does he suddenly get a huge boost in role and status? Nonsense! He is just as "real" to the Symphony then before he got a stack of twenties as tall as he was.

Now, because of press, his role is probably bumped up one or two. "Hey, did you here about the guy in town who won the lottery?" "Yeah, what WAS his name?"

Last edited by JCD; 09-01-2008 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Role isn't just how capital-F Famous or popular a vessel is, it's how many connections it has with the real world. Sure you could be a billionaire who has no real contact with anyone but your faithful manservant and your lawyer/accountant who manages your affairs. But, those affairs include dozens of business holdings that employ thousands of people, who interect with even more people on your behalf. Your name is plastered all over various legal documents, maybe your picture's in an employee handbook. Maybe customers refuse to buy Brand X as long as your product is out there. Without any direct interaction, your high level role is influencing thousands of people, even if it doesn't have an active social life as most people understand it. Heck, even to have that reclusive independently wealthy billionaire, his name and info is out there somewhere...on purchase papers for his multi-million dollar mansion, his private jet, his bank accounts...it's hard to hide a billion dollars iunder your bed.

Now, take "Scary Dude who lives in 4B." Gnash doen't really care about the role; he's obsessed with winning the lottery and so directs all his attention to doing that. He finally does and when he goes to collect his winnings, they ask for a name, driver's license, birth certificate, etc...all things Gnash never bothered with for his low-level (possibly non-existent) role. So all that money sits unclaimed until Gnash can come up with documents proving he's "John Smith" or whatever name he gives. Once he does, maybe his picture is in the paper, his name's all over the place ("Local Man Wins Lottery!"), people are popping out of the woodwork trying claiming to be long-lost relatives or asking for donation s to their charities. In short, "John" becomes a lot more real to a lot more people. Sounds like if Gnash wants to benefit from his winnings, he'd better buy up that role, a fair enough request from the GM.

It's tough for me to picture a high status, low role combo, since even the lottery quick win would require cementing that role to claim the cash.
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Cemented (note my stipulating a rise in role a point or two) but not inflated.

I can imagine such a creature. A role is created by DIRECT contact, not ephemeral connections done by proxy. Stock doesn't care who owns it. A bank manager doesn't care who puts in the money. A secretary DOES care about who her boss is.

Dropping a thousand dollars on the street might make waves which reverberate through the Symphony...but the effects are done through other mortals and my "role" in the changes are faceless.

But again, that is MY interpretation of how it works. YMMV

Last edited by JCD; 09-01-2008 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 02:30 PM   #10
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [vessels] how to manage role

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
That said, what about a low role who "won" the lottery? Obviously, the designers hadn't encompassed such a situation? Does he suddenly get a huge boost in role and status?
I wouldn't give someone who won the lottery a Status boost at all. Simply having a few millions of dollars isn't enough to make people react to you better, or make them more likely to listen to you. A millionaire tycoon doesn't have Status 6 because they have millions of dollars, they have Status 6 because they own a business empire that happens to pay them a very large salary.

Quote:
Now, because of press, his role is probably bumped up one or two. "Hey, did you here about the guy in town who won the lottery?" "Yeah, what WAS his name?"
Actually, I wouldn't bump a Role for winning the lottery, at least as a matter of course. Maybe if it was part of a plan, perhaps. But if the celestial just happened to buy a ticket and get lucky? Nuh-uh. A Role is about connections to people, but it's also about the paperwork. And winning the lottery will probably prompt some paperwork checks. The tax agencies will do some investigation, to make sure they get their cut. Journalists will do background research for stories on the winner. Neighbors will try to find details to better support requests for cash. :-) And so forth. If the celestial's Role isn't prepared for any of that, it could very well lead to the Role degenerating. In fact, I could see that as a cunning tactic for an opponent to use to degrade a Role.
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