[DF] Summoned allies questions:

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

That seems to make it a condition the GM sets at the beginning of the adventure, rather than something the player must decide. I wonder why it's important for it to occur at the beginning.

Probably at least in part for the GM's benefit in planning. But also, for the player's benefit in planning - making sure transport and food are available.... and of course mid adventure you may find yourself completely unable to contact your Ally, due to being in a cave, on a ship, in another dimension, etc.

Give the character a chance to bring the Ally along to begin with, rather than basically ensuring that most exciting things that would call for an Ally also make the advantage impossible to use by leaving you out of contact with said Ally.

[Danukian]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Probably at least in part for the GM's benefit in planning. But also, for the player's benefit in planning - making sure transport and food are available.... and of course mid adventure you may find yourself completely unable to contact your Ally, due to being in a cave, on a ship, in another dimension, etc.

Give the character a chance to bring the Ally along to begin with, rather than basically ensuring that most exciting things that would call for an Ally also make the advantage impossible to use by leaving you out of contact with said Ally.

I always assumed it was a 3 part reason:
A) Planning Benefit for Player and GM

B) The same table is used for Allies, Contracts, Enemies, Patrons and Dependents, See A.

C) It usually makes sense - in a standard (non-summonable) Ally (and Dependent) to to know if he's able to come on the Adventure before setting off to the Crypt of Creepiness. If I ask my brother to go on raiding a tomb with me, I expect to meet up before we dive into the entrance - if I see my brother offering to help me out when I'm days into the Illusionists lair, he can expect to get poked by a meteoric dagger at the very least! There are time when it makes sense, especially for contacts and urban adventures, but that's generally, see A - the GM can know before you even decide to call in a favor if it will work and plan accordingly.

[Figleaf23]

Um ... okay, this thread has undergone some peculiar gyrations.

What is the final result of the discussion about how often you can summon a summonable ally?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Um ... okay, this thread has undergone some peculiar gyrations.

What is the final result of the discussion about how often you can summon a summonable ally?

"Spell-like" summonable allies can be summoned as many times as you like until you fail a roll. At which point you need to wait a day.

"Classic" summonable allies can only be summoned once per adventure. If you fail the roll you can wait a day and try again, but once summoned that's it.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Classic" summonable allies can only be summoned once per adventure. If you fail the roll you can wait a day and try again, but once summoned that's it.

For +100%? That's crazy.

Has ANYone ever played that way before this thread?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

For +100%? That's crazy.

Has ANYone ever played that way before this thread?

Actually, it's okay.
It basically means that with a, say, 9 FoA, you can get your ally to show up for the adventure, eventually, after several days of rerolls, even if you're in the middle of Mordor. And stays with you until sent back, or the adventure ends.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Actually, it's okay.
It basically means that with a, say, 9 FoA, you can get your ally to show up for the adventure, eventually, after several days of rerolls, even if you're in the middle of Mordor. And stays with you until sent back, or the adventure ends.

I know what it means, but it's crazy-expensive (Swithcable is only +10%) and totally out of nowhere gimps a very necessary trait for a ton of situations. How do you modify it then, for a wizard with an Imp servitor?

Is this rule only for DF, maybe, and in other GURPS it works the normal way?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I know what it means, but it's crazy-expensive (Swithcable is only +10%)

Switchable doesn't apply to all advantages - it specifically isn't an option for advantages that already have controls on when the advantage is "on" or not - which Allies have some very strict rules for. Switchable +10% here is as much a bogus comparison as it is on Mana Enhancer.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

and totally out of nowhere gimps a very necessary trait for a ton of situations.

The classic interpretation is exactly how it works in Basic Set (where Ally with Summonable is introduced) and Powers doesn't adjust this.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

How do you modify it then, for a wizard with an Imp servitor?

Take a Summonable ally (in order to be able to stow or recall it) with Constantly for your frequency of appearance (so its always available and you never have to roll and therefore can never fail and have a 24 hour cooldown period). At this point you can make the imp come and go for a concentrate action with no risk of failure, as many times as you like, for a duration of 1 minute. Apply Extended Duration to suit, +150% will make the imp permanent until dismissed, exorcised, dispelled, whatever.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Is this rule only for DF, maybe, and in other GURPS it works the normal way?

Define "Normal". The "Classic" interpretation (as noted above) is the default and RAW one. People keep trying to make it do something that isn't supported in the rules, and is a hell of a lot better than the RAW way Ally works. So if you want to do that, there have to be drawbacks elsewhere, or the cost needs to go up further. Kromm is suggesting an alternate mechanic that is worth +100% (and IMO, it totally is).

Having it just be better for no extra cost is certainly an option for a GM, just like houseruling anything to suit his campaign is an option for the GM.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Bruno

...The classic interpretation is exactly how it works in Basic Set (where Ally with Summonable is introduced) and Powers doesn't adjust this.

This thread is the first time I've heard of this 'classic' interpretation where a summonable Ally cannot be resummoned after being dismissed. No text in either Powers or Basic suggests it.

Take a Summonable ally (in order to be able to stow or recall it) with Constantly for your frequency of appearance (so its always available and you never have to roll and therefore can never fail and have a 24 hour cooldown period). At this point you can make the imp come and go for a concentrate action with no risk of failure, as many times as you like, for a duration of 1 minute. Apply Extended Duration to suit, +150% will make the imp permanent until dismissed, exorcised, dispelled, whatever.

Um ... that's exactly opposite of the ruling as explained by sir pudding. He says it said 'once dismissed, cannot be resummoned for the rest of the adventure.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Um ... that's exactly opposite of the ruling as explained by sir pudding. He says it said 'once dismissed, cannot be resummoned for the rest of the adventure.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Spell-like" summonable allies can be summoned as many times as you like until you fail a roll. At which point you need to wait a day.

Nothing I wrote conflicts with this. If you insist on only reading half his post and refusing to acknowledge the other half because inventing new rules to cover un-covered sections is against your philosophy here, I can't help you. I'm specifically not saying a strict legalistic approach to the game is wrong either, but it does mean that you just can't get help for some things off the forum.

If you're asking how to build it based on the Classic model only, the answer is "you can't without making up a bunch of stuff, which is why another approach was needed, so Kromm made up a bunch of stuff". Which will probably make their way into print eventually.

Classically, Summonable doesn't change anything about how Ally works except by giving you a special way to get the Ally to show up and quickly "go away" - modifiers change nothing but what is stated in their description after all. So on the Classical model, the Ally hangs around for "the adventure", and if you wiff the Frequency of Appearance Roll, it's just plain not around until the end of "the adventure".

The Conjuration variant adds an additional change, in that your Ally can be somewhat disposable, but doesn't come with automatic good feelings (needing a reaction roll and negotiations). This is a net 0% change from Summonable.

Ally does NOT explain what happens when you send an Ally home early at all - Summonable or not, Conjuration or not, no text anywhere explains it. Rules limbo. But without Summonable, he has to do it using only abilities on his character sheet, and he'll be at risk if travelling through a dangerous region (as usual).

Kromm has given a ruling on that, which, as you seem prefer a RAW-only game style, you'll have trouble using. But that leaves you with a big hole in how Ally works - you can take Kromm's ruling, make your own, or just forbid Ally until a patch goes into print somewhere that you'll accept as authoritative. You can complain that this isn't in the text as written and submit it as errata.

But complaining that it hasn't been addressed at all, when it's just been addressed by making up rules - as it required rules to be made up - is a bit obnoxious.