Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 2 and Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Reprint

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Beoferret

Phil, thanks for putting so much work into this. I was honestly worried that this Kickstarter wasn't going to work out ('cuz I have "pessimism" at quirk level, maybe?) And I have to say, I'm actually really excited about the journals. Will they be sold through Warehouse 23 too?

We will offer excess journals on Warehouse 23, after we have shipped the rewards. We will print as few as possible, though, since our goal is to manage slow-moving inventory in the current market.

[Beoferret]

Originally Posted by philreed

We will offer excess journals on Warehouse 23, after we have shipped the rewards. We will print as few as possible, though, since our goal is to manage slow-moving inventory in the current market.

No folders then, I take it. Dang.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Beoferret

No folders then, I take it. Dang.

Folders can still happen. It'll just take close to $10,000 worth of action in the next 18 hours...

[philreed]

Thank you for the support, gang! We've got an update that is important to read in the final twelve hours of the project.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/2455421

[tbone]

Well. With the Kickstarter a few days in the past now, I haven't seen much follow-up talk (unless I'm missing the active thread). Let me just say congrats to SJG for another successful campaign. I'm glad it funded, and even hit a stretch goal.

It's too bad that it couldn't reach as far as the remaining three stretchies. As in, it's too bad that backers demonstrated support that's healthy but not awesomely healthy (like, it's only HT 11 instead of 14); too bad that the special folders won't get produced; and too bad that Monsters 2 falls 12 pages short of its potential. Which, if I understand correctly, means 6 monsters don't see the light of day. (Just as well for them; sunlight is awfully harsh on monster skin.)

To help drum up interest, and just to express some honest praise for my favorite fantasy RPG, I wrote up a long "31 Reasons" post. Many thanks to everyone who linked to it in forums and blogs (including SJG's own Daily Illuminator)! It was perhaps less effort to write than some well-wishers suggested, as I largely drew from my six-part review of DFRPG. Then again, I guess that review counted as work – though, stretched over many months as it was, it wasn't too taxing a task. . . .

For the curious: Over its several days of promoting the campaign, and with people's helpful links, my article pulled in around 2000 views – a number that a real website would rack up in a day or a minute, I know, but it's a healthy showing for my site. I also made a few dozen tweets, including one tweet for each of those 31 reasons; those directly hit only my minuscule following, but I got some good retweets, including kind retweets from some D&D-focused accounts with many thousands of followers. I hope those helped.

Back to the games: It'd be interesting to hear later from SJG "how many of what" the campaign garnered, e.g., how many boxed set reprints will be delivered. (If it's in the company's interest to do so, of course.) I guess Dr K now has the job, if he hasn't done so already, of deciding which 6 monsters to leave out of the new book. I don't envy him that task (especially the part where he has to break the news to that half-dozen). Here's hoping we see them soon in Monsters 3 or somewhere else.

In other news: Then there's the other Kickstarter that happened, for The Citadel at Norðvorn. I'm glad that did well, and am happy to have backed that too! But I leave further discussion to its own threads.

All right then. Time to go check the mailbox to see whether that Monsters 2 book has arrived today. (What? That's not how this works?)

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by tbone

It was perhaps less effort to write than some well-wishers suggested, as I largely drew from my six-part review of DFRPG. Then again, I guess that review counted as work – though, stretched over many months as it was, it wasn't too taxing a task. . . .

Interesting, thanks for sharing that.

There was an impressive amount of content in that promotion, so I had wondered similar things. Great writing and persuasion by the way.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by tbone

Well. With the Kickstarter a few days in the past now, I haven't seen much follow-up talk (unless I'm missing the active thread). Let me just say congrats to SJG for another successful campaign. I'm glad it funded, and even hit a stretch goal.

It's too bad that it couldn't reach as far as the remaining three stretchies. As in, it's too bad that backers demonstrated support that's healthy but not awesomely healthy (like, HT 11 instead of 14); too bad that the special folders won't get produced; and too bad that Monsters 2 falls 12 pages short of its potential. Which, if I understand correctly, means 6 monsters don't see the light of day. (Just as well for them; sunlight is awfully harsh on monster skin.)

To help drum up interest, and just to express some honest praise for my favorite fantasy RPG, I wrote up a long "31 Reasons" post. Many thanks to everyone who linked to it in forums and blogs (including SJG's own Daily Illuminator)! It was perhaps less effort to write than some well-wishers suggested, as I largely drew from my six-part review of DFRPG. Then again, I guess that review counted as work – though, stretched over many months as it was, it wasn't too taxing a task. . . .

For the curious: Over its several days of promoting the campaign, and with people's helpful links, my article pulled in around 2000 views – a number that a real website would rack up in a day or a minute, I know, but it's a healthy showing for my site. I also made a few dozen tweets, including one tweet for each of those 31 reasons; those directly hit only my minuscule following, but I got some good retweets, including kind retweets from some D&D-focused accounts with many thousands of followers. I hope those helped.

Back to the games: It'd be interesting to hear later from SJG how many of what the campaign garnered, e.g., how many boxed set reprints will be delivered. (If it's in the company's interest to do so, of course.) I guess Dr K now has the job, if he hadn't done so already, of deciding which 6 monsters to leave out of the new book. I don't envy him that task (especially the part where he has to break the news to that half-dozen). Here's hoping we see them soon in Monsters 3 or somewhere else.

In other news: Then there's the other Kickstarter that happened, for The Citadel at Norðvorn. I'm glad that did well, and am happy to have backed that too! But I leave further discussion to its own threads.

All right then. Time to go check the mailbox to see whether that Monsters 2 book has arrived today. (What? That's not how this works?)

I am very confident that we will see the monsters left out somewhere else in the future.

I for one and more than happy to pay for them in a PDF.

[Oracle]

I backed as well and got in on the 2nd printing of Dungeon Fantasy.

Forgive me as i get back into the SJGames systems - is Dungeon Fantasy a descendant of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers & 2: Dungeons? I realize there is also GURPS Fantasy, Magic and further sourcebooks, articles, etc.

Just trying to make sure I understand what is what and how the systems differ. I have a 9yr old son, and several friends and groups that like different systems and complexities so having options is useful. :)'

Thanks for any assistance.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Oracle

Forgive me as i get back into the SJGames systems - is Dungeon Fantasy a descendant of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers & 2: Dungeons? I realize there is also GURPS Fantasy, Magic and further sourcebooks, articles, etc.

It includes much (most?) of those two books, yes – plus much more.

The position of Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game – related to but separate from the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy line of books – is a little confusing for someone just coming in. I took a shot at sorting things out here: http://www.gamesdiner.com/2017/02/de...ays-with-gurps

The summary:

At the basic level, you can play fantasy games with GURPS using just Basic Set. It's really very doable, but you very much have to craft your own fantasy game out of it (create character types, work up more monsters, think up more spells, etc.). Lots of work ahead.

At the next level, you can add fantasy-related books, like Fantasy and Magic, to Basic Set. That'll help a lot with world-building and fleshing out characters, monsters, magic, etc., though you're still in the mode of "build a game out of the parts".

Next level up: Use the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series with Basic Set (and most probably Magic, + possibly other books as you like). That's the series that really fleshes out a mostly-complete game for you (if old-school-style dungeon delving is the game you want); the more books you use from the series, the more it takes care of for you.

Final level: Go Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game (technically "Powered by GURPS", not GURPS itself). Except that's not so much the next level in the progression, as a step to the side. DFRPG is the core, necessary parts of Basic Set, Magic, the Dungeon Fantasy series, and tidbits from other books, collected into one stand-alone game – so none of those other books are needed. Just DFRPG alone. (Think of it as a replacement for all those fantasy components above.)

You can enhance DFRPG with any bits you like from GURPS books (especially parts of the Dungeon Fantasy line that were left out of DFRPG). Be aware that some details will differ (a few costs, details of some spells, etc.), but they're easily paved over. And regular GURPS books may make reference to things that aren't covered in DFRPG, and so may not be clear without (for example) Basic Set.

Overall, though, as an offspring of GURPS, DFRPG sticks very close to its parent. You don't need any GURPS books to enjoy DFRPG, but you'd certainly be able to enhance DFRPG with many of them.

[Kromm]

I couldn't have said it better myself! The message I'm constantly trying to transmit is this:

The Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game (DFRPG) is its own game, aimed at first-time roleplayers and more experienced gamers who have never played GURPS.

The DFRPG has its roots in GURPS, but it doesn't assume you know GURPS, have or intend to buy GURPS supplements, or anything of the sort. GURPS fans inevitably ask "Why was X changed?", "Why wasn't Y included?", "Will Z be added?", etc., and drop non-DFRPG traits, rules, and concepts into DFRPG discussions. If you blow that smoke aside, though, the DFRPG works fine all on its own . . . my personal belief is that if all you want to do is run hack 'n' slash treasure-hunts with leveling-up, the DFRPG works better than GURPS. I'm currently between campaigns, but if I decide to jump back in, it will be with the DFRPG as written.

From the perspective of spending/saving money, I'd describe the DFRPG as "All the truly essential bits of the GURPS Basic Set, GURPS Low-Tech, GURPS Magic, and the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series for running hack 'n' slash treasure-hunts with leveling-up." And by "the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series," I don't just mean the first two supplements; rules from volumes 1-4, 8, 11, 16, and 18 made it in, not to mention creatures from Monsters 1-4, numismatics from Treasures 1, and tons of stuff from my Pyramid articles since 2008 (e.g., revamped spell prerequisites). You'd have to play the game for a long time to really need to adapt and introduce additional content from the Dungeon Fantasy series, never mind the rest of GURPS and Pyramid. The people saying you need to do that right away aren't first-time roleplayers or people coming to the game from outside GURPS; they're longtime GURPS fans.

From the perspective of playing the game, the DFRPG is simpler than GURPS. I did away with a lot of the things that make GURPS seem math-heavy. Some of those were on the character-creation side; e.g., no ability design with masses of enhancements and limitations, and no techniques. Other changes matter more in play; e.g., slams no longer require a calculation. I also made templates easier to read, eliminated complexity that just about never matters in fantasy (like rapid fire), and removed rules that don't matter if you're only ever going to game in one genre with strong specific assumption (for instance, you don't have to worry about tech levels). I'd never call it "GURPS Lite for fantasy," but "GURPS Medium for fantasy" would be fair.