Losing Items in Play

[PriusGuy2004]

I read in the FAQs that if you are required to lose items, it says that you have to lose items that are in play (on the table) and not turned on their side. You do not lose items that are still in your hand. What happens if you don't have any items in play that your munchkin is currently using (or can use)? Do you then discard items that you are just carrying (turned on their side)? And then after that (if neither of those are options), you lose cards from your hand? Or, do you just not lose any cards at all...because you have none in play?

[MunchkinMan]

Cards that are not in play would be in your hand, so all Items you have on the table are in play (also referred to as carried according to the rules), whether you are using them or not (those turned sideways). The cards in your hand don't count as Items since they're in your hand. The rules actually state that cards in your hand don't count for whatever it is that they might represent if they were in play. So, if you're told to take an Item, it has to come from the Items you are carrying (i.e., all of those that you have on the table, used or not).

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by PriusGuy2004

I read in the FAQs that if you are required to lose items, it says that you have to lose items that are in play (on the table) and not turned on their side.

One clarification: you *can* lose sideways Items (those that are not currently giving you a bonus) unless the Curse/Bad Stuff specifies Items that you are using, or says something like "the Item giving you the biggest bonus."

Cards in your hand may not be lost to a Curse or Bad Stuff (even if you want to) unless that effect specifically targets them.

[PriusGuy2004]

Some friends of mine and I played a great game of Munchkin tonight, and while playing I was thinking again about losing cards that were in play (on the table). I then looked at the FAQs about losing cards and also discarding cards:

Q. Okay, I gotcha. But what if I have to discard a card, do I discard from my hand? Or in play?
A. If you have to discard and it doesn't specify from where (e.g., the Wizard's charm spell) then you can choose from any of the cards you possess.

If you lose an item, the FAQs say you lose one in play (on the table). What is the difference between losing an item and discarding a card (where you can discard from your hand, too)? I must be overthinking this too much. Losing and discarding seem very similar to me. Need a ruling, please. Thanks.

[Clipper]

Losing and discarding are exactly the same thing. The difference is with the other word in those effects you mentioned, that is the difference between 'Items' and 'cards'.

A card is not an Item until you play it to the table. That's why "Lose an Item" effects can't target cards in your hand, as the cards in your hand do not count as Items yet.

Effects that tell you to discard a card can target your hand as it is full of cards, in addition to those cards you played to the table.

For completeness, effects that tell you to discard a 'Treasure' can also target cards in your hand or the table.

[tremorlaine]

Cards in your hand are just cards.

Cards on the table are cards AND whatever else it signifies, i.e. item, class, race.

[PriusGuy2004]

Originally Posted by Clipper

Losing and discarding are exactly the same thing. The difference is with the other word in those effects you mentioned, that is the difference between 'Items' and 'cards'.

A card is not an Item until you play it to the table. That's why "Lose an Item" effects can't target cards in your hand, as the cards in your hand do not count as Items yet.

Effects that tell you to discard a card can target your hand as it is full of cards, in addition to those cards you played to the table.

For completeness, effects that tell you to discard a 'Treasure' can also target cards in your hand or the table.

Thanks for the explanation! This helps a lot! So, just as an example, let's say you have to face the Level 14 Insurance Salesman. However, you can't kill him because you don't have enough bonuses to overpower him, and you fail to run away. The "Bad Stuff" says you have to lose 1,000 gold pieces worth of items, but if you don't have that much, lose all you have. This would mean you'd lose any items currently on the table (either in use or carried) only, right? You'd keep the cards you have in your hand. Is this correct?

[Clipper]

Yes, that is correct. The only Items you can lose to the Insurance Salesman (whether you reach his price or not) are those that are already on the table.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by PriusGuy2004

Thanks for the explanation! This helps a lot! So, just as an example, let's say you have to face the Level 14 Insurance Salesman. However, you can't kill him because you don't have enough bonuses to overpower him, and you fail to run away. The "Bad Stuff" says you have to lose 1,000 gold pieces worth of items, but if you don't have that much, lose all you have. This would mean you'd lose any items currently on the table (either in use or carried) only, right? You'd keep the cards you have in your hand. Is this correct?

Since you made mention of the terms, I'll clarify: All Item in play are carried, whether they are being used or not. In other words, with respect to Items, carried means in play.

[PriusGuy2004]

All very helpful. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in!