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Old 09-04-2017, 11:52 PM   #11
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I don't think you understand how surgery works.
I'm a vet (the animal not the soldier type) so I have a reasonable understanding on how surgery works.

I'm not saying that surgery should make things magically better but it does have an immediate and beneficial effect on the patient.
Certainly return to normal function is much quicker (almost instant in some cases, other than pain).
A massive increase in healing is also appropriate, wound edges join together better if they are in apposition for example.
I think, there needs to be a better way of handling surgery is all.

I will do this with house-rules but I just wanted to double-check my reading of the rules was correct, i.e. I didn't miss anything.
Thanks,

Wayne
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:26 AM   #12
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

I still say that surgery is about stopping the patient from dying and removing impediments to healing FAR more than healing itself.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:56 AM   #13
Refplace
 
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
I'm a vet (the animal not the soldier type) so I have a reasonable understanding on how surgery works.

I'm not saying that surgery should make things magically better but it does have an immediate and beneficial effect on the patient.
Certainly return to normal function is much quicker (almost instant in some cases, other than pain).
A massive increase in healing is also appropriate, wound edges join together better if they are in apposition for example.
I think, there needs to be a better way of handling surgery is all.

I will do this with house-rules but I just wanted to double-check my reading of the rules was correct, i.e. I didn't miss anything.
Thanks,

Wayne
One of the nice things about GURPS is House rules are fairly easy to implement based on the type of campaign you want.
As suggested by Varyon in a Cinematic game it might fit and at least now you have your answer, you did not miss anything. Its just part of what your referring to as Surgery (suturing wounds) is covered by First Aid (good for the players since its an easier skill) and some of the other things would not be HP damage but more a crippling wound where surgery can allow proper healing.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:56 AM   #14
trooper6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Medford, MA
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
I'm a vet (the animal not the soldier type) so I have a reasonable understanding on how surgery works.

I'm not saying that surgery should make things magically better but it does have an immediate and beneficial effect on the patient.
Certainly return to normal function is much quicker (almost instant in some cases, other than pain).
A massive increase in healing is also appropriate, wound edges join together better if they are in apposition for example.
I think, there needs to be a better way of handling surgery is all.

I will do this with house-rules but I just wanted to double-check my reading of the rules was correct, i.e. I didn't miss anything.
Thanks,

Wayne
Maybe you did miss something? Did you read B424? Because surgery does some of the things you say that it should do.

If you have a Mortal Wound, surgery is the way to stabilize it. So in the case of mortal wounds, surgery has an immediate beneficial effect on the patient. You get the surgery, you don't die.

Surgery also does give the benefit of a massive increase in healing. You can use surgery to repair a lasting crippling injury. If you heal on your own it takes months to heal. If you have surgery it only takes weeks to heal.

If you use the Severe Bleeding rules from Martial Arts, only Surgery can stop bleeding from the skull, eye, neck, vitals, veins or arteries. So, no surgery there will mean death. Surgery will mean an immediate beneficial effect.

And of course surgery can instal prosthetics, cyberware, etc.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:00 AM   #15
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I still say that surgery is about stopping the patient from dying and removing impediments to healing FAR more than healing itself.
Okay, so how about something like this?

After a successful surgery roll, the patient gets an additional roll on the Medical Help Table per day equal to the number of days that the roll succeeded by. If the roll fails then no further rolls are allowed.
If the roll is a critical failure, then this represents a complication such as infection, wound breakdown etc.

Is that a reasonable compromise?

It allows for faster healing after successful surgery (which currently does nothing) but is not a magic wand of hit points.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:41 AM   #16
trooper6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Medford, MA
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
It allows for faster healing after successful surgery (which currently does nothing) but is not a magic wand of hit points.
But you do currently have faster healing after surgery to repair lasting crippling injuries...going from months to weeks. So...what you want seems already to be in the rules.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:51 AM   #17
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

I'm obviously at odds with everyone else.
Maybe my experience with animals (who have much (much much) higher pain thresholds than we do) has clouded my judgement.
I'm sorry for wasting people's time…
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:05 AM   #18
Flyndaran
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Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Perhaps you're missing the extra healing rolls that Physician's care gives.
I think Vets count as Physician, so caring for animals post surgery would speed up healing.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:11 AM   #19
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Perhaps you're missing the extra healing rolls that Physician's care gives.
I think Vets count as Physician, so caring for animals post surgery would speed up healing.
We don't, we take the stitches out about a week or two later. We might send them home on antibiotics and pain relief but that's it.
Having said that, maybe that's all people get after intensive care…
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:24 AM   #20
Mailanka
 
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Default Re: Surgery - How does it work?

Weird that we're this far in the thread and nobody has quoted the book.

The purpose of Surgery is detailed in B424. You can stabilize a mortal wound, so someone who is dying will stop dying and start recovering. You can repair a crippling wound, assuming it can be fixed, so that it can heal on its own. You can also repair permanent crippling wounds with sufficient technological prowess (for example, inserting cybernetics).

Surgery doesn't heal you. It allows you to heal.
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