Helms, Greaves and Gauntlets...

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Dan, would you give any penalties for wearing a cuirass without an arming garment, as was probably typical before the middle ages? What about other types of torso armours?

Yeah. I give -1 DX and -1 DR

[Gudiomen]

Ok, I've weighed 2 pairs of gaucho boots in a highly precise digital food scale that measures up to 2000g, I weighed each boot individually, 4 total. They came to 735g, 751g, 770g and 768g... they are size 41 (on the scale used here in Brazil, not sure how that translates to other systems). I took photos and I'll post them latter. (Edit: photos here)

They are leather with a layer of padding underneath, they're pretty long and reach almost up to the knee. They're hard enough to stop snake bites, thorns, scratches from metal wire, and getting stepped on by half-a-ton cattle (you still get hurt, but believe me, it makes a difference) both the pairs I weighed have a decent amount of scratches and they have a little dirt stuck to them, so the actual weight might be slightly less than what I tested. They're not as hard as I remembered them, but considering the thickness of the leather and the padding underneath, I'd definately give it DR 2, although if we were to break DR 2 down into 2.0 to 2.9, it'd be on the lower end.

Now, I'm definately not going to say that the average DR 2 boot weighs this little, but it's at least plausible that hand-made, batch produced (not personalized), high-boots with DR 2 weigh around 1,5kg or 3.25lbs. There are variations, offcourse, but considering most medieval people would have smaller feet, the figure is perfectly sound. The techniques by the leatherworkers here are very traditional and probably very similar to what we would see in low-tech environment.

[nik1979]

Originally Posted by Gudiomen

Bronze Helm (B,F), DR 4, 4.5 lbs, $160
Legionaire Helm (B,F), DR 4, 3.5 lbs, $150

Some Ideas.

I guess we can simplify this and just useBarbute as a technical term for these helms (if the term is correct). Ornementations may varry but the areas these helms protect are the same. If we consider it without any ornementation and the same surface area, there is only a 20% difference in weight between bronze & steel.

Open Faced Helms like Spangenhelm and Bascinets could be lumped together based on the areas they protect.

Hats can have Nasal Helms, Sallets, Conical Helms like the Cervellier and the Ancient and Dark Age Cataphract/Clibanari helms just one category with their variations in weight (heavy cap) and quality.

Visors can considered Built in Face masks and can be an augmentation to Open face helms. When visored just call it a Visored Helm.

Barrel Helms can be simplified to Full Helms, to describe a completely enclosed helm.

The other named helms like the Armet or the Hounskull can be considered fine Visored Helms.

If one considers there are roughly 2 or 3 (if you consider the neck) hit locations on a helm, i they differ only in degree of coverage. Some one be rated 2/3rds coverage, another 1/2, another 5/6ths and for those nasal helms probably 1/6th for the face.

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by nik1979

I guess we can simplify this and just use Barbute as a technical term for these helms (if the term is correct).

I've often thought in a similar fashion, I'd rather define helms by "anatomy" than by historical chronology or culture. If it has the same characteristics, it should have the same stats, and hence, only one entry. Thanks for that link, I didn't know of any real-life examples of steel "greek-style" helmets... only the greek and roman ones.

I didn't expect someone to ressurect the thread now, I've done some revision after Bruno's very good and broad armor tables. Which is pretty compatible with what I came up with, although not fully. Since both Dan and ArmorSaint (our armor geeks - and I mean that in the good way) have shown aproval of her work, I'm going to be using those stats, pretty much. Haven't had time to sit down and fully evaluate it though.