Why no new GURPS hardcovers?

[scc]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

In addition to the other things mentioned in this thread, there is a larger issue: the pool of writers who are both

(a) demonstrably capable of putting together a full-length GURPS hardcover, either on their own or in collaboration with a small team, and
(b) willing to put in that much time on a large-scale project, rather than bashing out Pyramid articles (requiescat in pace) or smaller PDF supplements

probably contains fewer than 10 people; I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's fewer than five.

Writing for GURPS, only slightly more than any RPG, requires a certain set of technical writing skills that only come with diligent effort and a whole lot of practice. And the writer really needs to be engaged with the subject of the book, because writing tens of thousands of words on something you don't enjoy is a recipe for a dull, plodding manuscript, assuming you don't just throw in the towel halfway through.

It is very easy to say "publish more hardcovers!" And yes, in an ideal world with infinite resources of time, money, and talent, that would be a great solution. We have starkly limited supplies of all three. IMO, it's better to apply them where we can see smaller results more quickly and more often than to try to force out one or maybe two big books a year at the cost of not having any other GURPS to sell.

There's also the problem of finding subjects big enough to write a hardcover on.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Dalin

But, I have a devilishly hard time introducing GURPS (or DFRPG) to people without physical books.

That's the only reason I picked up the two I did. To be able to plop them on the table and let people paw at them.

I have contemplated putting together a few DF titles into one pdf and printing it, just so Players (both actual and potential) can just paw through it.

But, as you say, it wouldn't have the same glossy, full-color appeal of 'real' GURPS hardback.

So instead I plop DFRPG Adventurers down and then mention "and we're using stuff from DF and Martial Arts..."

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by scc

There's also the problem of finding subjects big enough to write a hardcover on.

I think there are plenty of 3e books for which 4e versions could be done that haven't been done yet. Cyberpunk is the first to mind.

[AlexanderHowl]

You could also combine 3e books. For example, Greece, and Imperial Rome could be combined into 'Classical Civilizations' or China and Japan could be combined into 'East Asian Civilizations'.

[borithan]

Originally Posted by edk926

I kind of feel hardcovers in general aren't going to sell well anymore. More and more people use things like tablets for their reading now.

I am less convinced by that. I feel it applied more to the kind of people who are likely to comment about roleplaying games on an online forum (not a criticism for anyone here, just a reminder that we are not necessarily the norm), but don't know it actually applies to the general RPG market.

My local games shops struggle to keep stocks of D&D books in stock becasue they are being bought so often. These are £42 books, which you need to buy two or three of (a group will require at least one copy of the Player's Handbook and then either the Monster Manual to be able to play the game or one of the pre-published adventures), so you are talking about a £80 to £120 outlay on hardbook books before you can even play (Not taking account of the £25 odd starter box you can buy of course). Obviously a lot of these are experienced gamers, but I know several new people breaking into the hobby for the first time through this route.

Now, I don't think this means there is a market or a case for a new hardcover book for GURPS, as we are talking about the leading roleplaying game in the market here, with brand recognition even with non-gamers, and an extensive marketing campaign behind it, but I leave it as a counter to the idea that "pdfs are the future." At least having corebooks on shelves in bookshops and games shops do draw in new people. PDFs work well for experienced people, who know what they are looking for (which is truthfully more likely going to be the market for a niche GURPS expansion), but for someone who has never played and is looking to break in, they are not even going to know where to look for them, so obviously they are more likely to reach for the game that is sitting there on the shelf of their local shop.

I personally cannot ever remember never impulse buying a pdf, but I have bought many physical RPG books that I will never use on impulse. Pdfs are never going to have the experience of "well, I like the look of this book" and certainly don't have a satisfying new book smell (though I do realise the convenience of pdfs when having to lug around kilos of books around).

[Phil Masters]

I suggested doing Steampunk 4e as a full-size print book, but, well, it's ended up as a series of PDFs. There were of course lots of reasons for that. C'est la vie.

I can sympathise -- a lot -- with people who'd like to see more print product for the line, but on the other hand, well, I recently moved house and downsized a bit in the process. I've kept my games book library, for a combination of practical and sentimental reasons, and I still have quite a few print books around the house, but a fair few others went to charity shops. So I've developed a new appreciation for electronic publishing in general. The loss of the browse/impulse sale factor is a real problem, though.

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

That brings up another question. Now that Pyramid is being discontinued, how can new writers to GURPS break in?

It's going to be a problem, but doing a 16-page-or-so mini-supplement isn't actually much more work than doing a decent Pyramid article. So I'd seriously encourage would-be GURPS writers to think about options there. I just hope that the company does indeed get more such PDFs moving along now.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

My pdf books I can find in a matter of seconds, and they take up essentially no physical space. I'd convert virtually all of my physical books to pdf if I could do so easily.

I don't dispute the utility of PDFs. I love it that I can get electronic copies of game books (and other books). Most of my GURPS collection exists electronically as well as physically. I keep my PDFs on the cloud so I can get to them from any computer, tablet, or phone. I just find them to be less effective at attracting new customers.

I have seen this as a teacher as well. If I read a great book on my e-reader, I can talk about it with students and some may try to find a copy. I do better, however, if I buy a physical copy and add it to the classroom display. Then students can look at the cover, read the back, and flip through it to see if it feels right for them. I get much more traction with physical books, even though many students prefer reading ebooks; they like seeing a physical book before they get the electronic version. (It must be maddening to work at a bookstore these days when people sometimes come in to browse and then buy all the books online!)

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I certainly do. It makes reading in the bathtub feel safer.

I don't understand how people do this. Your hands are wet, you'll get the book wet. You have to be careful not to drop or splash the book.

[Kromm]

The existence of such possibilities in theory doesn't change the reality of which Andrew spoke. In particular:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

[...] the pool of writers [...] probably contains fewer than 10 people; I wouldn't be surprised to find that it's fewer than five.

The belief that adapting, updating, or compiling content that already exists for GURPS Third Edition is easier than creating GURPS Fourth Edition content de novo is in error. It's harder.

Those Third Edition books were created by writers who were breaking new ground and using a rules system they knew well. Those writers were engaged by the excitement of doing something novel. Their obligation to get rules and stats right, while doubtless not quite as fun as the research and prose facets of the project, was lightened by the fact that they were writing that crunch for the first time – and, as I said, for a familiar system.

Asking someone to do an update is a whole other thing. The focus moves to two tasks: One is adapting rules between editions, which is a tricky technical feat that admits little creativity but causes a lot of headaches (I know this better than anyone), and that demands familiarity with two editions of the rules. The other is weaving new research on the era, genre, location, or whatever in with the old, which is tedious because in effect you're both editing the last writer and writing your own stuff. Compilations are harder still, because they involve adjusting all parts to use a similar voice and, where they present comparable rules, ensuring there's no duplication – or worse, near-duplication.

I have a lot of experience with this. I will outright state that updating an old book is just more work and less fun than writing a new one. It demands a lot more technical skill as a rules developer, fact-checker, and editor, even if it asks less of one as a writer. The cohort of people capable of that is very, very small. And "Just have staff do it!" isn't an option; currently, "staff" for GURPS means "Kromm, plus whatever part of Nikki and Steven's day can be spared from other projects," which in practical terms means I haven't the time to do it. Putting me on an edition update means the rest of GURPS stagnates, which is why I write small PDFs instead.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Culture20

I own many GURPS hardcovers, but frankly Diskworld and Mars Attacks are extremely niche, and I have zero interest in either game world. Judging overall interest in physical books by their sales is foolish.

Here's the problem:

People constantly wax poetic about how they loved all those old GURPS adaptations (Callahan's, Conan, Horseclans, Riverworld, Wild Cards, Witch World, etc.) . . . not to mention the praise heaped on the White Wolf conversions (Mage, Vampire, and Werewolf) . . . and of course their preciousss was GURPS Traveller. When putting their money where there mouth was and is, that's what gamers bought and buy. So we can afford to consider such licenses as Discworld, Mars Attacks, and Vorkosigan – and hopefully one day Girl Genius – for Fourth Edition. But there are two catches:

1. Those licenses are generally time-limited. We can't just "bring back" an old license. In many cases, the RPG rights belong to someone else; in a few, they're still available but the price has gone up too much. So the past is consigned to stay in the past.

2. Those licenses almost always demand that we offer a flashier-than-usual presentation: better covers or paper, more or nicer art, color, whatever. It's rare for a licensor to say, "Create a black-and-white PDF with no art." In fact, many licensors are reluctant to allow PDF releases at all, for a variety of reasons that amount to, "We fear the ease of digital piracy."

So . . . we're in a situation where the expensive presentation is limited to licensed works we believe will sell better than pure rulebooks, and where the licenses are limited to new ones. It isn't ideal, but it is reality.

If we honestly believed that GURPS Big Heap o' Rules would sell as well as GURPS Flashy License with Lots of Fans, we would release it in hardback, possibly with lots of cool art. But the sales numbers prevent us from believing that.

Sales were good for old licensed works, but few licenses allow us to issue new editions (Discworld was extraordinary). So we shoot for new licenses, and just about all such licenses impose certain requirements on us as publishers.