How lethal is a master?

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by weby

As for creating a new universe, actually seems pretty expensive. At 10^53 kg approx weight for the known universe. You would need close to 1.5*10^26 levels(that is if it was all solid, but close enough for getting an order of mangitude) of create at base cost of 40 at just under 6*10^27 points for the solids, then the same for liquids. As for the gasses you would need the same order of magnitude to get the radius. The diameter is 8.8*10^26 meters so you would need about 4.5*10^26 levels of create gasses at about 1.8*10^28 points.
So, no it is not half the points really...

Creating a universe is much cheaper than that. You just need a minimum of Snatcher (Creation, +100%; Large Objects, +50%; More Mass, 2×10^54 kg, +1,620%; Permanent, +300%) [1,736], which is actually a limit more than half of 3,000 CP now that I have written it out, but it is still well within the capabilities of a 3,000 CP character. In truth, such a character will likely have more than a few limitations, as there is no reason for a chapter to be able to create a universe more than once a day, and a few more enhancements.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Kromm

So while I've seen characters in the kilopoints range, they generally weren't built from the ground up as gods. I've even had them in nominally "real world" campaigns where the 1,000 points largely took the form of huge lists of social advantages and high investments in many skills. If I say, "Maximum DX is 15," and somebody wants a 20 in a dozen combat skills, the DX and skills alone are 340 points. If they do the same thing with mental abilities, they're at 680 points before even buying ST, HT, secondary characteristics, advantages, perks, or techniques. And DX 27 [340], IQ 27 [340] was never on the table, so comparisons to that are moot.

My campaign was never intended to last this long, but it has, and the characters from the beginning are up at 1000-1100 points. I required that attributes, etc., stay within the (fairly generous) limits GURPS states for Humans - primary attributes no higher than 20, and so on. As access to really expensive and exotic advantages has also been strictly limited, most points have gone into skills and raising attributes to the maximum - one character has ST18, DX18, IQ17, HT18, and another ST20, DX18, IQ15, HT18 (he's the party's heavy hitter), both with HP at STx1.3. Note that this is normally a TL10-11 campaign with ultra-tech weapons and armour - my players do not believe that ST is useless at high tech levels at all! This is serving them well in their current adventures in a TL4 environment where anything higher than TL6 tends to evaporate or transmute into a low TL 'equivalent'.

But even at 1000 points, before they did some training in low TL melee weapon skills, these guys would've had some small trouble dealing with the OP's weapon master if the fight had started in close. I have no doubt either PC would win, but they'd get hurt. Now, they'd carve him up, because their attributes are so much better - they're tougher, faster, can run longer, and are just generally better than the weapon master despite their melee combat skills 'only' being 17-19. Oh, and they're much richer, which translates into enchanted really heavy plate armour and armour piercing impaling crossbow bolts fired from ST21-23 crossbows (2d+6(2) imp or so) and armour piercing swords.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Creating a universe is much cheaper than that. You just need a minimum of Snatcher (Creation, +100%; Large Objects, +50%; More Mass, 2×10^54 kg, +1,620%; Permanent, +300%) [1,736], which is actually a limit more than half of 3,000 CP now that I have written it out, but it is still well within the capabilities of a 3,000 CP character. In truth, such a character will likely have more than a few limitations, as there is no reason for a chapter to be able to create a universe more than once a day, and a few more enhancements.

I hope you can visualise the entire universe at once, clearly.

[weby]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Creating a universe is much cheaper than that. You just need a minimum of Snatcher (Creation, +100%; Large Objects, +50%; More Mass, 2×10^54 kg, +1,620%; Permanent, +300%) [1,736], which is actually a limit more than half of 3,000 CP now that I have written it out, but it is still well within the capabilities of a 3,000 CP character. In truth, such a character will likely have more than a few limitations, as there is no reason for a chapter to be able to create a universe more than once a day, and a few more enhancements.

Note that for snatcher with create you would first need to see the whole universe. That would require further powerful special abilities.

Then you could only make an exact copy or you would need to be able to visualize it fully that is not really possible normally.

Further permanent is one of the things that are specially flagged for special GM scrutiny.

So no, you could not create a universe with 1700 points as you would also need a gullible GM and some expensive additional powers to see the whole universe and if you want anything except an exact copy some method to visualize it fully.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I mostly run high-powered campaigns . . . it's just my thing, and the players I've had access to feel the same way. But by "high-powered" I mean "you'll start at 200-250 points and I have no problem playing until you have 2,000-2,500 points." As a rule, the options available to starting characters are fairly modest, even realistic. I prefer to see the incredible stuff develop organically in play, making the "origin story" something living and gamed out – not cut-and-dried like fiction written by the player.

Indeed, my own take is pretty much the same, with the characters developing mostly during game instead of character generation. Thus my current campaign started at 100 points and is projected to end up at about 5000-6000 points and is the "origin story" of three deities from my game world.

Lastly, not everything that adds to a character's point total is chosen by the player or optimal. There are sometimes rewards – from kings, from archmages, even from gods – that add character points in areas that make sense for the granter regardless of the recipient. There might be weird magic potions or ultra-tech nano that produce changes for the better, but not necessarily changes of great utility

This is something I do a lot too, the characters have LOTS of abilities that are granted by someone else, by random magic pools and the like that are really not optimized for or even useful at all to the character in question.

[oneofmanynameless]

In most of the games I play or run this guys combat skills are substantially higher than the average PCs and he'd win a straight sword-fight. However, the PCs would more than make up for it with durability and super powers. Most PCs have AOE attacks, Maledictions, and other such things which his sword skill wouldn't do much about. And most PCs are tough enough to take a couple of hits from him without going down. So he'd be a frustrating enemy, but not a particularly dangerous one. As an ally he'd be a good battle-buddy.

If you swap out his weapon skills for gun skills it's a different story. He'd likely kill at least one, if not multiple, PCs. He could easily kill all of them if the strategic situation was favorable to him.

[Bengt]

Wouldn't you also need to some way to make space for this new universe? Wouldn't Snatcher by itself overlap it with the universe you are in with catastrophic consequences?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

If you swap out his weapon skills for gun skills it's a different story. He'd likely kill at least one, if not multiple, PCs. He could easily kill all of them if the strategic situation was favorable to him.

My long experience running a modern-day campaign with lots of guns was that Stealth vs. Perception was far more important than Guns vs. pretty much anything (armor, cover, Dodge, etc.). The PCs all had jacked-up Per scores specifically to avoid snipers, and while their star sniper was scary with Guns (Rifle), her Stealth-17 made the difference more often.

[AlexanderHowl]

It is easy enough to create a realistic character with Stealth-20+, even on a modest budget of 150 CP. Just have a character purchase DX 12 [40], Craftiness 4 [20], and Stalker 4 [20], and you can buy Stealth (A) DX+8 [2]-20. You could then give them Guns (Rifle) (E) DX+10 [36]-22 and you would have only spent 118 CP. With the extra 100 CP to bring them to 250 CP, they might even actually be more than a one trick pony, as you could give them ST 12 [20], IQ 12 [40], HT 12 [20], Per 20 [40]; Combat Reflexes [15], Fast-Draw (Ammo) (E) DX+2 [2]-14, and a wide range of other advantages, disadvantages, and skills. The end result would be an NPC that could kill people from miles away without being detected.

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Kromm

My long experience running a modern-day campaign with lots of guns was that Stealth vs. Perception was far more important than Guns vs. pretty much anything (armor, cover, Dodge, etc.). The PCs all had jacked-up Per scores specifically to avoid snipers, and while their star sniper was scary with Guns (Rifle), her Stealth-17 made the difference more often.

I believe* that this is representative of reality, in that the tricky thing about battlefield sniping is less about making 750 yard headshots and more about getting into position without being detected and getting away again after shooting.

* non-expert opinion