Morph cost can be altered during game?

[Biscuri]

Is it possible to change the morph cost buying "racial" characteristics with CP awarded throgout the game?

For instance, I have a racial template that costs 50 points with Innate Attack 1d and Morph (150 points, can change into 100 point templates).

If I buy a damage dice to that Innate Attack, then the cost of Morph will decrease to 145 (therefore it wouldn't cost me at all)?

Or I will be able to access templates with 105 points (since Morph gives me access to forms with 50 points beyond mine and I "leveled up" my form)?

[Refplace]

Sorry, dont understand the question.
Morph costs 100 points regardless of your racial template. What changes is your pool. So if your racial template goes up during the campaign than your available pool points go up, allowing you to change into more powerful forms.
Though race templates dont tend to change.

[Biscuri]

Thanks, that answer my question, but just confirming, if I have innate attack on my racial template, and buy more levels to it, that counts as adding points to the racial template, right?

Also, buying attributes, secondary characteristics or levels on physical advantages like hard to kill or regeneration, also count as rising the template cost?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Thanks, that answer my question, but just confirming, if I have innate attack on my racial template, and buy more levels to it, that counts as adding points to the racial template, right?

No. And yes. Essentially you are asking whether or not the player can change the characteristics of a racial template and whether or not those changed racial templates can be used on Morph. It's a GM call, he can allow it or he can decide that racial templates are writ in stone and you may not change the characteristics on them.

If I were GMing, especially for a player with a character with Morph, I almost certainly would allow it, but it still depends on the specific circumstances.

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Also, buying attributes, secondary characteristics or levels on physical advantages like hard to kill or regeneration, also count as rising the template cost?

Same answer as above.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Thanks, that answer my question, but just confirming, if I have innate attack on my racial template, and buy more levels to it, that counts as adding points to the racial template, right?

Also, buying attributes, secondary characteristics or levels on physical advantages like hard to kill or regeneration, also count as rising the template cost?

Usually, when you raise traits beyond what an ordinary member of your race has, that's not adding points to a racial template, it's simply adding points to the character.

Even if a human PC has ST 20 [100], DX 15 [100], IQ 15 [100] and HT 15 [50], the human racial template is still 0 points.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Thanks, that answer my question, but just confirming, if I have innate attack on my racial template, and buy more levels to it, that counts as adding points to the racial template, right?

Also, buying attributes, secondary characteristics or levels on physical advantages like hard to kill or regeneration, also count as rising the template cost?

I would usually not allow that.
A race template is supposed to mean everyone of that race has that trait at the same level.
So if your race is normally IQ 10 and you raise your IQ to 11 that +1 IQ is an individual ability not a racial one.
Note that you dont lose it when you change to a new template as Individual traits would stack.
If that were allowed there would be no reason to buy up the pool. Point for point Morph is a really good deal compared to say Modular Abilities, though in most settings the versatility is lower.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I would usually not allow that.
A race template is supposed to mean everyone of that race has that trait at the same level.
So if your race is normally IQ 10 and you raise your IQ to 11 that +1 IQ is an individual ability not a racial one.

I agree that normally, you shouldn't add traits to your racial template cost. However, the case described is a bit weird. Say you're a dragon with Innate Attack and Morph on your racial template (silver or gold scales are not required, but probable). You buy your Innate Attack up by a few levels to represent having a stronger breath weapon. Then, you transform into something that doesn't have a breath weapon at all - say, a wild elf. If the extra levels of Innate Attack are treated as not part of your racial template, then you should be able to access them, so now, you're a wild elf, who happens to be able to breath freezing ice at some level. And if it is treated as part of the racial template, then you should be able to transform into a more powerful creature when you morph, because you're giving up those extra points.

Personally, I would say to treat increased levels in abilities that other creatures don't necessarily have at all as increasing the cost of your racial template. So, buying up the breath weapon's damage would increase the point value of the dragon's racial template. Attributes, however, are something pretty much all creatures have, so buying up attribute levels over what your racial template provides will generally not count as increasing your template cost.

[Biscuri]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Personally, I would say to treat increased levels in abilities that other creatures don't necessarily have at all as increasing the cost of your racial template. So, buying up the breath weapon's damage would increase the point value of the dragon's racial template. Attributes, however, are something pretty much all creatures have, so buying up attribute levels over what your racial template provides will generally not count as increasing your template cost.

I agree with that approach, since it makes more sense, but there is still a problem:

Originally Posted by Refplace

If that were allowed there would be no reason to buy up the pool. Point for point Morph is a really good deal compared to say Modular Abilities, though in most settings the versatility is lower.

If I can raise morph by just buying more levels to my innate attack, there is no reason to buy the pool separately.

I thinking of couting just a part of the trait, say 1/2 the cost, as added to morph, so the pool points are still relevant, while still making sense to lose the breath when you shapeshift into a stronger wild elf.

[Anaraxes]

Usually, you can't alter your racial template just by buying some abilities. As was said upthread, a racial template is that which is true of all members of a race. Even if you are enhancing some ability that is part of that template -- say, increasing your 1D racial IA to 2D, or 20D -- that doesn't change the racial template. It just so happens that you're an unusual dragon with a more powerful breath weapon. That's no different that buying up ST to 11, and then saying the the ST 10 human racial template has somehow been altered to ST 11. It hasn't of course; it's just that one stronger human.

So the answer to the main question is "no", you don't get free Morph points just by buying some abilities that are also on your racial template. You're buying individual abilities, which carry over to shapeshifted form (or not) as per the usual rules for Morph.

Racial templates are part of the game setting, and don't change as casually as do characters. Short of some godlike intervention in-setting, they wouldn't change at all. A GM might change them, but that would usually call for a retcon -- "dwarves weren't really that strong after all" -- politely overlooked by the players, not an actual in-game event to justify the change. A racial template also belongs to every member of a race, so if you did change it, you'd be changing every individual of that race in the entire world. That would cost a few more CP than you probably have on hand...

[ericthered]

I agree with the basic principle that you can't normally stick improvements on your racial template, as part of that template. There are some caveats to this, of course:


You can age a dragon, changing from one template to another very similar (but well defined) template
You can acquire an additional racial template, such as a were-wolf.



Depending on the game, a racial template may include being allowed to buy exotic traits that stack with racial traits. A dragon may be allowed to add to its breath with normal character points. This doesn't change the racial template, it just stacks with it. I'd also allow some morph characters to increase their morph pool with extra points beyond the racial standard.