Shared space setting

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Warp-speed starships seems more space opera.

They still seem to be in the realm of legitimate physical speculation which is about the same status as wormholes given our targeted level of hardness I don't have a problem with them.

I haven't dealt with style or tone yet, (new) Space Opera is a legitimate possible (if not particularly likely) outcome based upon what we have so far.

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I was entertaining a), with long space travel being handled by infomorphs which generate bodies at the destination, but that might be more appropriate for a fiction setting than a game setting.
ETA- ... which could be how new wormhole gates are set up, allowing an option for scout/explorer adventures if needed.

I don't think this specific model is a good fit for a a setting deemphasizing AI, but STL precursor then FTL follow up has potential (and is practically standard in many harder settings.) I am not sure I would seriously consider it for this but FTL precursor STL followup (i.e. FTL isn't practical mass movement of people or goods) also makes for fun stories.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Can I make a split vote?
3A for overall TL9, but Bio-Tech TL11+?
Bio-Tech is always fun, and seems at home in a transhumanist setting.

You can after a fashion, possible TL lenses are on the agenda for tomorrow so unless you tell me otherwise I will count the second part as as vote for 'high bio-tech' on that vote.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Frost

4) Given that this is a relitively small multi-system setting how is interstellar travel accomplished?

a) Fast (super science) STL (Sub-light warp drive, Pseudo velocity etc)
b) Slow FTL
c) Fast but limited FTL (Remote or intermittently operable jump gates for example)
d) Two of the above

Answer d) was ninja'd in while I was answering, but I'll stick with (c) as my vote, in that I prefer a setting to only have one flavour of FTL. The STL wormhole transport, or something in the same niche, would be a second, but I think it should basically be off the table for most of what goes on in the setting. A lot of game settings, I think, end up with a smorgasbord of warps and hyperspaces, which I'd prefer to avoid.

Originally Posted by Frost

They still seem to be in the realm of legitimate physical speculation which is about the same status as wormholes given our targeted level of hardness I don't have a problem with them.

I meant it's more space opera in tone, even if it's equally feasible. I could be convinced otherwise though, with the right technobabble.

[Frost]

OK voting on questions one and two is now closed, the final results are :

1) nine votes in total: a) 0, b) 0, c) 7, d) 2, e) 0

It appears that we have three to five inhabited systems.

2) eight votes in total: a) 2, b) 4, c) 1, d) 0, e) 0, f) 1

So its the 2200's.

Remember there are more questions out there, so please keep voting.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Frost

I don't think this specific model is a good fit for a a setting deemphasizing AI, but STL precursor then FTL follow up has potential (and is practically standard in many harder settings.)

Hmmmm... Well, maybe machine AI doesn't work, which is why the braintapes of actual humans have to be installed in meat bodies at the destination. If machine AI worked, the humans wouldn't be needed. There is the problem then of explaining why we can faithfully record a human brainstate but can't emulate it on a machine, or use the same tech to make an AI.

[ericthered]

3: Withholding my vote, as I can't decide. Though Its really probably for heavy lensing.
4C: fast but limited FTL.
5B: I'd vote for C, but I'd like psuedo-habitable planets to be a big deal.

----------------------

I would like to add my voice to the opinion that the 3-5 systems should be the grand settlements worth noting, not the only places in the univserse where people live.

Also, It'd be nice to look at the front page and know what's going on.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Hmmmm... Well, maybe machine AI doesn't work, which is why the braintapes of actual humans have to be installed in meat bodies at the destination. If machine AI worked, the humans wouldn't be needed. There is the problem then of explaining why we can faithfully record a human brainstate but can't emulate it on a machine, or use the same tech to make an AI.

Rather than braintapes being "installed in meat bodies at the destination," how about "brains are grown under guidance from the braintape data, which is then uploaded into them." That means you can only upload a braintape into a purpose-grown brain. That avoids the ability to install a new braintape on an existing person, which comes with some large cans of cyber-worms.

Given that, the inability to run a brainstate under emulation on a computer doesn't have to be a hard inability. It's just that the necessary computing power to do it at a useful speed is huge and expensive, and Moore's law stopped in the 2020s (there are grounds for this being plausible).

Being able to run a human mind at 0.1 to 1% of its usual speed isn't very useful - although it was handy for STL probes.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Also, It'd be nice to look at the front page and know what's going on.

Working on that, I have brief lists up now with links to follow when I have chance.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Rather than braintapes being "installed in meat bodies at the destination," how about "brains are grown under guidance from the braintape data, which is then uploaded into them." That means you can only upload a braintape into a purpose-grown brain. That avoids the ability to install a new braintape on an existing person, which comes with some large cans of cyber-worms.

Sure- I kind of had the old Car Wars or Paranoia clone paradigm in mind for this. Your braintape only works with your brain-clone in your body-clone.

Given that, the inability to run a brainstate under emulation on a computer doesn't have to be a hard inability. It's just that the necessary computing power to do it at a useful speed is huge and expensive, and Moore's law stopped in the 2020s (there are grounds for this being plausible).

Being able to run a human mind at 0.1 to 1% of its usual speed isn't very useful - although it was handy for STL probes.

That works.
Why though would you send a braintape with a cloning tank instead of sending the original frozen person in the first place?

(Note that these are just me getting some brain-itches down on paper, not actual suggestions for the setting.)
Thought the First:
It's dangerous, and scary, and very far. And dangerous doesn't just mean that you might die- astronauts have lived with that risk for centuries. It's that you'll be frozen and stored in the STL colony-scout ship, and in the intervening light years anything could happen- meteorite, gamma ray burst, rogue planet, become a frozen dinner for an alien space jellyfish. And you'd never see it coming. The last thing you'll have ever known was the anaesthetist counting down from 10. Who wants that kind of fate?

On top of that, these scout-colonist astronauts wouldn't be just anyone, you'd want highly trained, experienced professional pilots, scientists, engineers and leaders. The monetary and human capital investment in crewing a scout-colony ship would be far too much to waste on a crap shoot. No, you recruit these guys not to go, but to copy so you can send their skills and expertise, then they go back to their regular highly productive jobs and comfortable family settings. Send their braintape and genomic record for the clone tank to save space and weight, and to avoid intermediary degradation from cosmic rays and such. If the computerised scout-colony ship reaches its destination, then it generates the colony crew while robotically building habitats for them.

Thought the First and a Halfth:
Who are these experts that get cloned? They're not the adventure seeking explorer sort- they're intelligent enough, but these are the guys who'd prefer, very reasonably, to stay at home on Earth in comfort and safety. And their clones, when they awaken, wouldn't be a jot different. The clone colonists could have a lot of resentment when they wake and realise that they're not the prime original, they're not going back to their family, and actually they have to build a space colony from scratch. They're disposable meat-things and the only possible future they have is a sterile habitat and restricted rations for the next few foreseeable generations. Not all of the clone colonists would feel like this, but the psychological and sociological stresses would be high.

Think then what happens when the second wave of colonists arrive- by STL or by the transported wormhole. Possibly the colony is now under the rule of a despotic ruler, with the whole society resentful and hateful towards the privileged newcomers. Thus starts the empire of the clones.

Thought the Second: Ultra-slow Hyperspace
A different answer to the "why not send a frozen colonist" problem: hyperspace travel is very inconvenient for organics. We have a hyperspace drive that can reach distant worlds in a useful span of time, months or years objectively, but subjectively for the crew of the scout-colony ship it takes millenia. This is due to seriously weird time dilation effects or some kind of chronal radiation, but the ship's clock ticks over 6,000 years and all the frozen organic bodies perish. The first hyperspace scientists were confounded by the effect, but eventually figured out a work-around. Store the crew as braintapes on solid-state, long-life crystal storage devices, engineer the machinery of the ark to cope with the incredibly long time span, and build a cloning factory that operates from feedstock of pure base carbon and other elements, then proceed with the normal deep space exploration program. Bingo! A slow but effective colonisation process.

Improved hyperspace ships could move faster objectively, but might have an inversely longer subjective time. Crew for multiple-jump missions- there and back again, or scouting a number of systems- would have a reconstitute-deconstitute protocol for each hyperspace jump. By the time they get back to Earth, their ship and constituent elements have been through eons subjectively, but they only know the passing of a few months or so.

I think this echoes some transhuman themes, but probably not in a way that's incredibly useful though.

[TGLS]

3A) TL9 for guns over lasers, weak computers, and poor fabricators. Probably some TL10 experiments and breakthrough areas.

4D) Needs to have Fast STL to get to other systems in appreciable time (15% c will take 33 years to get to a system 5ly away. And we can't even get that fast and have enough fuel to slow down without 4 stages for propulsion and TL11). Needs to have fast FTL to allow hopping between systems and maintaining a level of coherence (unless visiting an NPC 5 years later is desired)

5B) Unless Fast STL kicked off the new space race, it's doubtful that people would leave much of the solar system alone. If colonies on tiny boulders are popular, I don't see why solar systems would be. Just find a wet rock with fusibles, and instant colony! (There probably isn't enough time to run out of those rocks)