Twins in Gladiatorial Combat

[cptbutton]

Too lazy to look it up, how many points are the twins down from having to buy the Ally Advantage?

[Captain Joy]

S John Ross came up with a Gladiator style GURPS game back in the 3rd ed. He went with:

“A team's value is equal to the total point-cost of the team, multiplied by the number of gladiators in it. Thus, a team of four 25-point gladiators is worth 100x4, or 400 points -- an "even match'' for pair of 100-point gladiators (200x2).”

[Minuteman37]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Too lazy to look it up, how many points are the twins down from having to buy the Ally Advantage?

It would be 5 points for 100% your cp budget, x3 for near constant presence.

I haven't brought it up because the advantage of your twin seems worth MUCH more then those 15 points.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by Minuteman37

It would be 5 points for 100% your cp budget, x3 for near constant presence.

I haven't brought it up because the advantage of your twin seems worth MUCH more then those 15 points.

In this situation? Absolutely. This seems like a good use of Unusual Background to act as a Twin Tax.

[Minuteman37]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

In this situation? Absolutely. This seems like a good use of Unusual Background to act as a Twin Tax.

The question then is, how much should the price be adjusted by?

[mlangsdorf]

Having a twin in a gladiator combat is roughly equal to having Altered Time Rate 1 [100]. So being a twin in your gladiator game could reasonably cost 100 points.

Alternately, you could consider having a twin to be the same as having Duplicate 1 (Duplicated Gear, No Sympathetic Injury +120%) [77].

So somewhere between 75 and 100 CP - enough for equal CP lone gladiators to get Peripheral Vision, Luck, Extra Attack, and +2-4 levels of their primary weapon skill which might make them roughly equal to a pair of twins without any of those advantages.

[talonthehand]

I've been watching too much professional wrestling lately - you could lower the cost by putting in a "betrayal" factor. I'm away from my library, but doing something like rolling once per session - 6 or less the Ally becomes an Enemy. Possibly in the middle of a dual.

That'd probably violate all sorts of ritual components for it, but it'd make good entertainment.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Having a twin in a gladiator combat is roughly equal to having Altered Time Rate 1 [100]. So being a twin in your gladiator game could reasonably cost 100 points.

Alternately, you could consider having a twin to be the same as having Duplicate 1 (Duplicated Gear, No Sympathetic Injury +120%) [77].

So somewhere between 75 and 100 CP - enough for equal CP lone gladiators to get Peripheral Vision, Luck, Extra Attack, and +2-4 levels of their primary weapon skill which might make them roughly equal to a pair of twins without any of those advantages.

Sorry I know you weren't claiming that it was an exact match but I'd argue having a twin is way more than ATR (100pts)

If nothing else you have two lots of HP, (and if you use last gasp AP etc).

Two opponents can position themselves to disadvantage a single copnet better than a single opponent with an extra action can

It's a tough question as IMO the advantage here is not linear with CP!

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Sorry I know you weren't claiming that it was an exact match but I'd argue having a twin is way more than ATR (100pts)

No, it's literally a variant of Duplicate 1 (Duplicated Gear, No Sympathetic Injury +120%) [77] (at worst) as mlangsdorf said above.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

No, it's literally a variant of Duplicate 1 (Duplicated Gear, No Sympathetic Injury +120%) [77] (at worst) as mlangsdorf said above.

that's why I mention the ATR option which is actually more expensive than the duplicate one (despite teh that fact that IMO the duplicate is more useful than being able to go twice).


Now on the duplicate It might "literally" be that in terms of GURPS traits that in they replicate a person, but in an actual fight in terms of the value of an 2nd combatant on you side no it really not as simple as saying well that worth 77cp.

But don't take my word for it test it

Make 200cp combat build give it the duplicate advantage as above for a total of 277 cp

and then make a 277cp combat build and see if you get an equal fight.

Now do it with 50 cp basic build.

I think the closer you get to a 77cp base build the closer you'll get to balance!


One problem here in this context is that duplicate is a set cost

Ultimately is weird thing because in a duel context I'd argue the 77cp duplicate build is worth more than the 100cp ATR build. But obviously as you broaden out the context out things might change

This all said duplicate and ATR are pretty esoteric advantage that have some unspoken prerequisites built into them compared to bringing a mate along who can fight as well as you.