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Old 02-02-2010, 01:53 PM   #11
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33 View Post
What i really wanted to know was if there existed an in RAW generic limitation version of "Cosmic", sadly the answer seems to be a definite no; Pity, there should be.
The thing is, though, that Cosmic isn't nearly as generic as you're making it out to be. It's not some sort of all-purpose "existing enhancement doesn't do what I need? Slap Cosmic on it!" thing. Cosmic is specfically for abilities that "break the rules", going beyond the normal limits of the advantage entirely. And there isn't just one Cosmic enhancement - it's a category, not a single thing. For example, making a defense capable of protecting against what it's normally not capable is +50%, while removing the roll from an ability that normally requires one is +100%, and making an attack that ignores any bonuses to defend against it is +300%.
Cosmic doesn't really mean "generic". It means "GMs beware, this could potentially break your game - handle with care!".

In most circumstances, the best thing to do when an advantage doesn't have the enhancement or limitation you want is to create a new one, comparing it to existing limitations. Just shrugging and saying "eh, slap on Cosmic" will end up leading to either overpriced or underpriced powers, depending on what you're trying to do and what version of Cosmic you use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33
"Speak only": Oops... Sorry, i was assuming "Telesend" established a two-way mental chat; my bad... Still, i'm curious on how this would be done for an inherently two way communication
You'd want Mind Reading as well as Telesend, with a limitation for "only on people I have contacted with Telesend" on the Mind Reading. Probably extended range on the Mind Reading as well, if you want to be able to "listen" with the same range as you "talk".
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
The thing is, though, that Cosmic isn't nearly as generic as you're making it out to be. It's not some sort of all-purpose "existing enhancement doesn't do what I need? Slap Cosmic on it!" thing. Cosmic is specfically for abilities that "break the rules", going beyond the normal limits of the advantage entirely. And there isn't just one Cosmic enhancement - it's a category, not a single thing. For example, making a defense capable of protecting against what it's normally not capable is +50%, while removing the roll from an ability that normally requires one is +100%, and making an attack that ignores any bonuses to defend against it is +300%.
Cosmic doesn't really mean "generic". It means "GMs beware, this could potentially break your game - handle with care!".

In most circumstances, the best thing to do when an advantage doesn't have the enhancement or limitation you want is to create a new one, comparing it to existing limitations. Just shrugging and saying "eh, slap on Cosmic" will end up leading to either overpriced or underpriced powers, depending on what you're trying to do and what version of Cosmic you use.



You'd want Mind Reading as well as Telesend, with a limitation for "only on people I have contacted with Telesend" on the Mind Reading. Probably extended range on the Mind Reading as well, if you want to be able to "listen" with the same range as you "talk".
True on "Cosmic", but what i mean is not that generic a trait, but one Cosmic-like in reverse.
"Cosmic" is a non-specific, non-specified enhancement that, when no other enhancement covers it, will often allow you to effectively remove certain limitations and/or improve on some inherent capabilities of a trait. A limitation version of that would be nice.

But how to do "No listening/understanding, only speaking" on "Speaks with animals?"
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:32 PM   #13
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

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Originally Posted by white33 View Post
True on "Cosmic", but what i mean is not that generic a trait, but one Cosmic-like in reverse.
"Cosmic" is a non-specific, non-specified enhancement that, when no other enhancement covers it, will often allow you to effectively remove certain limitations and/or improve on some inherent capabilities of a trait. A limitation version of that would be nice.
Isn't Accessibility already a general catch-all limitation?
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But how to do "No listening/understanding, only speaking" on "Speaks with animals?"
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:42 PM   #14
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

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Originally Posted by white33 View Post
"Cosmic" is a non-specific, non-specified enhancement that, when no other enhancement covers it, will often allow you to effectively remove certain limitations and/or improve on some inherent capabilities of a trait.
Except that that's not what Cosmic is intended for. The different varieties of Cosmic acually have fairly well-spelled out effects: Cosmic: No Roll Required removes a roll, Cosmic: No Defense allows you to ignore defensive advantages, and so forth. Other Cosmic effects fall within similar parameters. My point is that if you go around saying "there's no enhancement that exists for the effect I want on this trait, better use Cosmis", you are going to break the game. Things will be either undercosted, or overcosted.
Cosmic is not a good way to get out of doing the GM work, and the game doesn't need a "limitation version" of it either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white33
But how to do "No listening/understanding, only speaking" on "Speaks with animals?"
So you can say things that the animal will understand (to the best of its ability, obviously), but you can't quiz it? Hmm. I'd say that's a -50% limitation on the advantage. Having animals understand you with no problems is nice, but with most animals, that's something you could duplicate with sufficiently high levels in Handle Animal. Losing the ability to quiz them on what they've experienced, on the other hand, is a big loss. -50% seems appropriate.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

To put it another way for the OP, if a Limitation doesn't exist, just make it up. This is quite normal and common, but we don't call them "Cosmic" Limitations. "Cosmic" is reserved for things which are usually kind of amazing, it doesn't mean "not yet specifically defined in the RAW," which is the confusion you seem to be having in the first post.

Most new Limitations are variations of Accessibility, but some of the ones you were after were variations on other Limitations.

For limited Speak with Animals, just make a new Limitation "Speaking only, can't understand", price it at maybe -30%. There's no need to call it Cosmic.

You could theoretically have another new Limitation, "Listening only, can't speak" which would have a similar price. These are the normal functions of limitations, and there's nothing Cosmic about them.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:46 AM   #16
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Default Re: Reverse Cosmic.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Except that that's not
So you can say things that the animal will understand (to the best of its ability, obviously), but you can't quiz it? Hmm. I'd say that's a -50% limitation on the advantage. Having animals understand you with no problems is nice, but with most animals, that's something you could duplicate with sufficiently high levels in Handle Animal. Losing the ability to quiz them on what they've experienced, on the other hand, is a big loss. -50% seems appropriate.


Well, i guess since "Send only" is likewise a -50% limitation on "Telecommunication" this would be accurate, even if if does feel like a lot. Thanks for all the feedback.
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