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Old 01-14-2020, 08:55 AM   #11
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

Sounds like a perk to me. Possibly.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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Originally Posted by AvaYan View Post
So the CIA and the NSA probably have Security Clearance alone, while the FBI also have Enforcement Powers. Is it? Should the CIA and the NSA have Legal Immunity?

They might have Diplomatic Immunity at foreign postings.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:28 AM   #13
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Not really, as they cannot arrest anyone, so they have no enforcement powers. At best, they are acting on behalf of law enforcement under very strict guidelines.
But they have "the power to perform searches with an appropriate warrant," "national or international jurisdiction," "are not obligated to respect the civil rights of others," (or they can get away with it a large amount of the time) and "are free to engage in covert investigations."

That's five things the advantage confers against one thing they can't do.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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They might have Diplomatic Immunity at foreign postings.
Diplomatic immunity agreements have stipulations, so if they are taking part in spying and such (rather than just being advisors to a diplomat*, etc.), they probably also have Secret. Should they be found out, the host country would revoke their immunity, and they would most likely either be withdrawn or limited to work within the grounds of the embassy/consulate.

* Aside from being the Spy Agency, the CIA is also the Everything We Know About This Country Agency.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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The NSA is military, and expressly prohibited from acting as law enforcement in any capacity.
Correct, and the CIA acts on foreign soil. If they uncover evidence of spying on U.S. soil, or in a U.S. territory, they have the legal requirement to notify the FBI.

The FBI controls all counter-intelligence operations in places under U.S. jurisdiction, and (as you noted) agents do exercise law-enforcement authority.

(Interestingly, they exercise law-enforcement authority when U.S.-flagged ships and boats experience crime on the high seas, while the U.S. Coast Guard takes care of crimes in U.S. coasts waters. They just get help from the U.S. Navy, sometimes, if Congress okays it.)

If someone with the CIA or NSA tries to target a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil, somebody with the agencies could wind up in jail. Congress gets pretty uptight about that sort of thing, and the courts have no sense of humor about it, at all.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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But they have "the power to perform searches with an appropriate warrant," "national or international jurisdiction," "are not obligated to respect the civil rights of others," (or they can get away with it a large amount of the time) and "are free to engage in covert investigations."

That's five things the advantage confers against one thing they can't do.
The CIA only does those things in other countries, where US laws don't have jurisdiction. Meanwhile, those activities are generally illegal according to the target country's laws. A CIA officer doesn't have an official standing that lets them ignore either set of laws. They may well do so, and get away with it, and make their superiors happy. But none of those results is due to a special legal status. The CIA doesn't hand out Bond-style licenses to kill.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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The CIA only does those things in other countries, where US laws don't have jurisdiction. Meanwhile, those activities are generally illegal according to the target country's laws. A CIA officer doesn't have an official standing that lets them ignore either set of laws. They may well do so, and get away with it, and make their superiors happy. But none of those results is due to a special legal status. The CIA doesn't hand out Bond-style licenses to kill.

Which is but to say that the CIA operates in terms of constant warfare not normal civilized behavior. Much like those tribes off in the wilderness who are always fighting because their ancestors did. Except in normal times the CIA fights by stealing information just like tribesfolk steal each other's livestock.

I am not sure what a Bond style license to kill is as to be honest I make fun of it more than I watch it. The CIA has certainly commissioned assassinations and done other stuff that was intended to result in someone getting killed. If you mean they never give people cart blanche to kill whenever they want, of course not; that would be insane. Which I suppose is not conclusive (people do some pretty crazy things) but does make it unlikely.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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The CIA only does those things in other countries, where US laws don't have jurisdiction. Meanwhile, those activities are generally illegal according to the target country's laws. A CIA officer doesn't have an official standing that lets them ignore either set of laws. They may well do so, and get away with it, and make their superiors happy. But none of those results is due to a special legal status. The CIA doesn't hand out Bond-style licenses to kill.
I was talking about the NSA, but I would say that the 15-point version is canonically meant as the advantage that CIA field agents have. They can do things that a regular US tourist or businessman in a foreign country would not get away with. It's listed as the advantage for KGB officers, but that doesn't mean that the KGB has jurisdiction in the US. And Jack Ryan didn't get charged with murder for all the Venezuelan soldiers he shot while storming the Presidential Palace. He might get dressed down by a superior or moved to a desk job, but the fact that he won't go to a Venezuelan prison is due to his 15-pt LEP.

You might be able to argue that the 15pt version is only for cinematic games, and in an ultra-realistic legalistic game you'd model it as a web of Patron, Rank and so on, but for most fictional CIA agents I can think of I'd just go with LEP.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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It's listed as the advantage for KGB officers, but that doesn't mean that the KGB has jurisdiction in the US.
The KGB could legally do all those things in the Soviet Union.
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

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I was talking about the NSA, but I would say that the 15-point version is canonically meant as the advantage that CIA field agents have. They can do things that a regular US tourist or businessman in a foreign country would not get away with.
If the CIA agent breaks the law in say Bolivia and his Patron doesn't want to do anything about it, he's going to face Bolivian justice.
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