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Old 02-27-2016, 09:51 PM   #71
naloth
 
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I made small size a leveled (dis)advantage too. I itemized the benefits (including the houserule changes) here. This is not my primary "All About Size Modifier" page as it contains campaign specific houserules.
I like the idea of SM being a leveled trait all of its own and your list looks like a good reasoning for the cost of those given traits.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:09 PM   #72
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Oh wow. I can't believe I goofed that badly. *facepalm*

Logarithms on the brain?
The more advanced of math someone knows, the more likely they are to screw up simple stuff. I will never forget the one test I got a B on due to one question where the fundamental mistake I made was adding 5 and 8 to get 12.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:11 PM   #73
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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The Great Old Ones in Cthulupunk apparently have some very impressive ST scores, although I am unclear how their striking damage works.
Not having read that book, all I picture is getting slapped in the face with a tentacle. Not my idea of classic Lovecraftian existential horror.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:20 PM   #74
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Not having read that book, all I picture is getting slapped in the face with a tentacle. Not my idea of classic Lovecraftian existential horror.
Lovecraft's elder beings, Old Ones, and etc were pretty physical. Cthulhu tackled steam boats head on and eats people, the haunter in the dark (avatar of Narlathotep IIRC) ate people, etc etc. You went totally insane of course, but then it ate you.
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:17 AM   #75
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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(...)
Let's say you have a super with ST 500 since that's now quite affordable. Even before considering defensive traits, such as DR and IT:DR, there's 500 HP chew through before you can KO him through damage. That's a lot of damage for Innate Attack. On the offense Mr ST 500 also has amazing damage throwing and punching - better than you can buy with Innate Attack - at the higher ranges of ST.

This sort of log ST is appealing for high lift while keeping the cost, damage dice, and HP values in a very usable number range. Of course it does mean a change in the meaning of what damage the dice reflect since +20 ST would be +5d and represent a x100 increase in force. DR and IA end up numerically the same but now compare favorably since DR will block more force for its cost and IA will be able to to damage high ST (HP) characters in a reasonable way.

The only problem is that existing equipment was assigned ST/HP/DR/damage numbers based on a different force progression, so you can't just pick items from High Tech or Ultra Tech and drop them in with the same stats.
Well, that solves or at least greatly diminishes the problem in Supers games (and even other genres) where brick types often have to tackle a lot of auxiliary powers/advantages besides the "I want to be str0nk!" to be functionally compatible with espers or shooters in a point by point comparison.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:42 AM   #76
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Well, that solves or at least greatly diminishes the problem in Supers games (and even other genres) where brick types often have to tackle a lot of auxiliary powers/advantages besides the "I want to be str0nk!" to be functionally compatible with espers or shooters in a point by point comparison.
Which solves that problem: the alternate pricing you proposed (essentially making high ST w/high damage affordable) or the alternate scaling this article started and I suggested as a more complete approach to rescaling the system entirely?
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:30 PM   #77
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Which solves that problem: the alternate pricing you proposed (essentially making high ST w/high damage affordable) or the alternate scaling this article started and I suggested as a more complete approach to rescaling the system entirely?
Referring to Infornific post (it wasn't me who suggested the alternate pricing):

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=66

I believe this approach doesn't twist things too much, keep the ST being ST but applying diminishing returns to the cost while providing enough bang to compete with other possible options.
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:57 PM   #78
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Referring to Infornific post (it wasn't me who suggested the alternate pricing):

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=66

I believe this approach doesn't twist things too much, keep the ST being ST but applying diminishing returns to the cost while providing enough bang to compete with other possible options.
It works better with the present stats of things, but having actually played it in games it creates similar problems to the 3rd edition SuperST fixes: at high point values ST is king, damage far outstrips HP (everyone needs IT:DR just to survive a punch), and often you're throwing or lifting stuff instead of punching it.
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Old 03-03-2016, 12:00 AM   #79
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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It works better with the present stats of things, but having actually played it in games it creates similar problems to the 3rd edition SuperST fixes: at high point values ST is king, damage far outstrips HP (everyone needs IT:DR just to survive a punch), and often you're throwing or lifting stuff instead of punching it.
That's the case if you're using the Super Effort enhancement for ST, but my suggested declining cost for ST would affect Hit Points as well. So for 300 points you'd get all of ST 100 including 100 HP. Admittedly, this also outstrips Innate Attack etc., but I suggested a plausible cost for a scaling Advantage to boost Innate Attack.
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Old 03-03-2016, 12:16 AM   #80
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Default Re: Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

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Sure, you could try to bolt on fixes for advantages but trying to address the pieces misses some main issues.

1) While huge disparities may be realistic in many cases, they aren't necessarily good for cinematic play. For example, super strong entities usually wound rather than turn people to red mist - the even bad guys that wouldn't pull their punches. That's not exclusive to Supers either. You find it as often in science fiction and fantasy. For that matter you also hear some real stories of survival or accomplishment that would be instant death in GURPS.

So the trick is to find a range of scores that are both playable and good at representing what you want characters to be able to do. IE, if you want Spidey to survive being hit by the Hulk (or Aragon backhanded by a cave troll or even a cat kicked by a human), you need damage values that allow it.
The problem is that in the comics the Hulk can smash tanks and do pretty impressive property damage but he'll be running around the same fight scenes as squishy normal humans like Hawkeye. Somehow, the more fragile characters never get hit with any attacks that will squash them flat. GURPS by its nature doesn't really handle that well. The systems that do (Champions, Mutants & Masterminds, the old DC Heroes) are generally set up first and foremost to mix wide ranges of firepower. GURPS tends to default closer to reality, which is to say someone or something that can dent a tank can splatter a normal human.

If I was running a supers game and trying to keep damage in a limited range, I'd probably give the higher powered characters surge type abilities - Power Blow for bricks, Fatigue burning attacks for blasters, etc - to represent maximum firepower and otherwise set up the rules to keep routine damage more modest.
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