"Help me out Here" + "Pollymorph Potion"...

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by YappyTypeDog

Is there a term used for all items you have in play that aren't currently equipped; inventory, or just called 'in play', or something like that?

The game refers to Items being in play as "carried," so that is the appropriate term for an in-play Item.

So, the card can Only be used IF you are currently going to have to run away (does that include losing fights where the monster will not pursue you?) and only IF after you take whatever one item you choose, you are now in a state where you don't have to run away (you are winning, the monster vanishes, becomes friendly, etc...)?

I guess there's just a lot of gray area to define what 'losing' and 'winning' a combat means.

There's not a lot of gray area at all. Winning = the munchkin side has greater combat strength (Levels + bonuses - penalties) than the Monster side (exception, Warrior wins ties). Losing = the Monster side has a combat strength greater than or equal to the munchkin side (exception, that pesky Warrior, again). It's that simple. Whether a Monster pursues or not has nothing to do with it. You don't have to do everything within your power to change things before you play HMOH, either, all that matters is your combat strength versus the Monster side when you play it. What happens AFTER you play it doesn't somehow reverse your actions, nor does it invalidate the use of the card, nor does playing the card guarantee victory, as someone could play another card that puts you back in the hole.

So, again, the only time you can use this card is when you are in combat and your side has a losing combat strength and the Item you take changes the situation so that your side has a winning combat strength, and that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

(Although, I suppose, in a fight with multiple monsters, they could...hmm.)

Exactly. . .

[YappyTypeDog]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

The game refers to Items being in play as "carried," so that is the appropriate term for an in-play Item.



There's not a lot of gray area at all.
Winning = the munchkin side has greater combat strength (Levels + bonuses - penalties) than the Monster side (exception, Warrior wins ties).
Losing = the Monster side has a combat strength greater than or equal to the munchkin side (exception, that pesky Warrior, again).

the only time you can use this card is when you are in combat and your side has a losing combat strength and the Item you take changes the situation so that your side has a winning combat strength, and that's all that matters.

So, just to get this particular case set...You can use HMOH to take a pollymorph/magic lamp etc etc to eliminate a monster if and only if there is another monster for you to fight? You can not use HMOH to automatically end the combat in any way that doesn't involve you killing something (no practice match/friendship potion etc..)?

[Andrew Hackard]

Breaking it down...

You MAY play HMOH if playing the Item you get will cause you to go from losing the fight to winning the fight at the moment that you play the card, by whatever means that would happen.

You may NOT play HMOH if playing the Item you get will eliminate the fight altogether (by some means other than an instant kill), or if you are already winning, or if the Item will not put you ahead of the monsters.

[YappyTypeDog]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Breaking it down...

You MAY play HMOH if playing the Item you get will cause you to go from losing the fight to winning the fight at the moment that you play the card, by whatever means that would happen.

You may NOT play HMOH if playing the Item you get will eliminate the fight altogether (by some means other than an instant kill), or if you are already winning, or if the Item will not put you ahead of the monsters.

I completely agree with that statement, but I was the only one out of the four of us playing who thought so, so I wanted to come on here and see what others thought.

So you can only 'win' a combat by killing a monster (or monsters) and actually gaining a level, and you 'lose' any combat where you need to attempt to run away (regardless of whether you are successful or not).

Anything else that involves monsters becoming friendly, giving you treasure, running away, etc etc does not constitute winning or losing and therefore if you are in that position you may not use HMOH (or if using HMOH will put you in that position, you cannot use it), am I correct?

[AMOE]

Not quite, for that part, we'd have to break "Winning" down to "Defeating" and "Killing" because those are 2 different things. "Defeating" would be to take out a monster without killing it (such as the Polymorph Potion), while Killing it requires you to have more combat strength than it does.

So unless I am mistaken, it goes more like this;


HMOH may only be used to take something that will allow you to "Kill" the monster(s) in that battle if you were unable to do so before hand.

HMOH may also be used to take something that will allow you to defeat any amount of monsters, as long as 1 is left for you to kill, and as long as you ARE able to kill said left monster.

HMOH may not be used to take something if you are already winning.

HMOH may not be used to take something that would "Defeat" all of the monsters without "Killing" them.

HMOH may thus not be used to take something that would allow you to run away automatically, the item has to make the difference between winning and losing, and running away means you were losing the fight


as explained before:

Winning = The sum of your side's levels and bonuses, minus your side's Penalties being a higher value than the sum of the monsters' side's levels and bonuses, minus the monsters' penalties.

Losing = Anytime your total Combat Strength (Levels+Bonuses-Penalties) is not higher than the monster's Combat Strength

Exception to those; Warriors, since they can win ties.

[morleydotes]

Easier way to define winning and losing:

Winning - your eating monster steaks.
Losing - Monster is eating you as steaks.


Very simple.

Pat

[AMOE]

True, but they don't always eat you now, do they? *points to Euclodian Horror* (or however you spell that), plus, there's the whole thing about "Not Pursuing". You'd still be losing, but they wouldn't eat munchkin steaks

[MunchkinMan]

Rather than confuse the issue further, I think it's time we just close this thread.