Why does UT concealable armor suck?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Mass production, see Henry Ford for details.

Because, clearly, the problem with APEP rounds is that they're lovingly hand-crafted by some Belgians. If we mass-produced them, clearly they could become cheaper! I wonder what we could use in an Ultra-Tech environment to do just that. Perhaps a Robo-fac?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

My point is that UT lacks a concealable but often somewhat noticeable armor similar to what say police wear now. It has armored clothing that is heavier than normal clothing but looks just like it, and armor that is not concealable at all.

Are you talking about Tactical Vests? Then look at Tactical Vests.

TL 8 Concealable Vest: DR 12/5, 2lbs, $1000
TL 9 Reflex Vest: DR 12/4, 2 lbs, $300
TL 11 Monocrys Vest: DR 24/8, 2 lbs, $300

Tactical Vests
TL 8 Assault Vest: 12/5, 8 lbs, $900
TL 9 Reflex Tactical Vest: 18/7, 9 lbs, $900
TL 11 Monocrys Tactical Vest: 36/15, 9 lbs, $900

Trauma Plates
TL 8 Trauma Plate: +25 DR, 4 lbs, $500
TL 9 Trauma Plate: +34 DR, 9 lbs, $600
TL 11 Trauma Plate: +69 DR, 9 lbs, $600

So, clearly there are comparable armors that do comparably well. If you want to stick a Trauma Plate on a concealable Reflex Vest, knock yourself out. And if there's an error here, I think it's clearly with HT: It's the only one that breaks the pattern, and somehow, those extra 6 pounds of extra weight on the Assault Vest amount to zero extra DR. Either the Concealable Vest is too good, or the Assault Vest is too weak.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

This is due to ommission, imho. I don't see why a Gauss 7mm(for example) couldn't be made.

It could be but the Gauss Rifle in Basic/UT is 4mm because the same-named weapon in Traveller was.

There's a lot of stuff in UT that matches common items from other settings/systems. The 10mm Storm Carbine is there to try and match the basic weapons from Aliens.

[chandley]

My point with the Heavy Clamshell is that if you grant the Advanced Body Armor in HT, than something built in the same fashion (overlapping plates on a flexible backing, like scale armor) at the TL 9 represented in UT, you would use the DR for the Heavy Clamshell. If someone where to build a clamshell out of the the titanium alloy they use in the Pinnacle product, it would weigh about the same, it just wouldnt be flexible.

If you dont like the concept represented at all, then youll be disallowing the Advanced Body Armor, and thus UT's armor is better than HT and you dont have an issue.

[Bruno]

At this point, it's looking like the Dragonskin might be best described as semi-ablative (Ablative might be too much, or might not - I'd call it semi for the moment) - if that ends up being the final verdict on the stuff, then the only real problem with Ultratech is the lack of other semi-ablative personal armor to compare it to, rather than making the entirely non-ablative concealable flexible armor look weak.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Because, clearly, the problem with APEP rounds is that they're lovingly hand-crafted by some Belgians. If we mass-produced them, clearly they could become cheaper! I wonder what we could use in an Ultra-Tech environment to do just that. Perhaps a Robo-fac?

Then explain why they are so expensive, when the so similar gauss rounds are so cheap? Being low volume vs high volume would explain the radical difference.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Bruno

At this point, it's looking like the Dragonskin might be best described as semi-ablative

Most of the trauma plates in HT should be too and this is mentioned in flavor text but isn't implemented in the stat tables, probably for the sake of simplicity.

Sort of like the Shield stats in Basic.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Are you talking about Tactical Vests? Then look at Tactical Vests.

I am talking about armor rated as concealable.

So, clearly there are comparable armors that do comparably well. If you want to stick a Trauma Plate on a concealable Reflex Vest, knock yourself out. And if there's an error here, I think it's clearly with HT: It's the only one that breaks the pattern, and somehow, those extra 6 pounds of extra weight on the Assault Vest amount to zero extra DR. Either the Concealable Vest is too good, or the Assault Vest is too weak.

My point is pretty solely about concealable armor. The game I am in is based off of firefly and there are complaints about not being able to wear effective armor. We also bumped up the armor divisor for gauss weapons to 4.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Then explain why they are so expensive, when the so similar gauss rounds are so cheap? Being low volume vs high volume would explain the radical difference.

Maybe some property of theirs prevents mass-production.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Most of the trauma plates in HT should be too and this is mentioned in flavor text but isn't implemented in the stat tables, probably for the sake of simplicity.

Sort of like the Shield stats in Basic.

I'm cool with that. But trauma plates aren't part of the problem that the OP is having, as far as I can tell. EDIT: They'd also be ablative in both books, if one made that change, so the situation would remain constant - still no flexible ablative armor to compare against, non-ablative concealable armors remain in proportion.