The Unshakable Will

[Rocket Man]

In the world of In Nomine, Will is very powerful indeed. A single Will roll is sufficient to resist many Attunements and Songs regardless of a celestial's proficiency, power or check digit. This obviously reinforces the "free will" theme of the game, giving even humans a decent chance to resist supernatural coercion, while celestials are a virtual tower of strength against each other's powers.

The downside is, there's a lot of really cool powers that don't get to work very often. Or at all, if an opponent has Will 12. Sure, you can load up on the Song of Celestial Charm, but if done with too many characters, it starts to seem a tad contrived.

So what other options are there?

This thread is for alternative mechanics to the standard "resistance" Will roll. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Some possibilities that come to my own mind include:

* How Good Are You? -- The target of a Song must make his Will roll by a higher margin than the performer makes her Song roll. For a resistable Attunement, use Will or Perception for the "attacker" as appropriate.

* Check This -- The target of a Song or Attunement must make their Will roll and have a higher CD than the assailant's.

* Bow Before My Power -- For each point of Essence spent (above the normal amount required), an attacker can drive the target's Will down by one before the resistance roll is made. This allows someone to blow through another person's defenses at the cost of exhausting their energy reserves and making a loud noise that other celestials are likely to hear.

* Don't You Know Who I Am? -- For every Distinction possessed by the character, reduce the target's Will by 1 to reflect the increased power at their command. (Or by 2, if you want to make Distinctions really powerful.)

*On My Wavelength -- Mortals resist celestial powers as normal, but celestials cut their Will roll in half to resist each other's powers, since they're part of the same plane of being and can more naturally manipulate each other's substance. Note that by the same logic, mortals would resist another mortal's supernatural meddling at 1/2 (making sorcerers a little scary) but that celestials would resist a mortal's supernatural abilities at full Will (making angels and demons TERRIFYING to sorcerers).


Other thoughts?

[Jason]

Interesting ideas. I'm running a low-powered demons and ethereals game now, and the only people they've really had a hard time getting Will-based attacks to work against are Soldiers of God (by design -- they have all have the Blessed advantage so far). In higher-powered games, though, I could see how this would be a pain.

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

* How Good Are You? -- The target of a Song must make his Will roll by a higher margin than the performer makes her Song roll. For a resistable Attunement, use Will or Perception for the "attacker" as appropriate.

In general, I am not a fan of making Will rolls by a higher margin. (I don't like doing any more addition/subtraction on the fly than I need to, and the 2d6 dice system messes up the statistics of this a bit.)

* Check This -- The target of a Song or Attunement must make their Will roll and have a higher CD than the assailant's.

Several Songs and abhorrent actions by Shedim, at least, do already require a Contest (higher Check Digit), rather than a Will roll to Negate, in order to be resisted. It sounds like you're suggesting that one could decide that there is no such thing as a Will roll to negate anymore, though I wonder if there are some Songs that are so powerful that you'd still want that to be an option...

* Bow Before My Power -- For each point of Essence spent (above the normal amount required), an attacker can drive the target's Will down by one before the resistance roll is made. This allows someone to blow through another person's defenses at the cost of exhausting their energy reserves and making a loud noise that other celestials are likely to hear.

Interesting. It would work similarly if Essence were spent to boost target number above 12 and the Wills were being rolled in a contest, but this could be a nice addition to a lower-power game where Will is unlikely to be close to 12.

* Don't You Know Who I Am? -- For every Distinction possessed by the character, reduce the target's Will by 1 to reflect the increased power at their command. (Or by 2, if you want to make Distinctions really powerful.)

Would this work on only those aware of the War, or anyone? I like this one either way.

*On My Wavelength -- Mortals resist celestial powers as normal, but celestials cut their Will roll in half to resist each other's powers, since they're part of the same plane of being and can more naturally manipulate each other's substance. Note that by the same logic, mortals would resist another mortal's supernatural meddling at 1/2 (making sorcerers a little scary) but that celestials would resist a mortal's supernatural abilities at full Will (making angels and demons TERRIFYING to sorcerers).

This is a fascinating reversal of the current system, in which Songs like Sleep barely affect celestials if at all. It's also nicely in keeping with the alternate rules in the GMG suggesting that humans might deserve more credit for free will than In Nomine normally gives them credit for.

As an alternative way of looking at this, rather than halving celestials' Will to affect mortals, double mortals' Will as long as they're mundanes or Soldiers of God -- effectively saying that every mundane is Blessed until they find out the truth of the War. If they find out the truth, they can only regain their Blessed status by pledging to follow the hard road of Heaven. (Yeah, chewing the fruit of knowledge sucks sometimes.) Demons are still wary about letting mortals know they exist because mortals would rise against them; angels are still wary about letting mortals know they exist because it paints a big red target on the poor squishy humans.

My own personal addition to all this: Cut out any instance where a Song says "celestials add [whatever] Forces to resist." It's hard to keep track of and makes a lot of powers essentially useless in celestial-focused campaigns.

[JCD]

Hmm.

I think some of your mechanics overlap with existing mechanics. A goodly number of Songs and many attunement are resisted which means the target needs to beat the CD of the Singer to resist, cutting back on the effectiveness of Will

Since the Singer can already also add Esssence to his CD, which mirrors your suggested mechanic.

Ex: Reina, in a war with Curtis, has a new vessel to take him by surprise. She sees him in a bar and targets him with the Ethereal Song of Attraction (Will resistance). Curtis has a Will of 12. He still needs to roll to determine interventions and the CD. Reina, really wanting to put the screws on Curtis, bumps her CD up by 2 with two extra Essence. All of this is already in the rules and mirrors what you are trying to do. So Reina starts with a default of a CD of 3 and a max of 8. Curtis, even with his stupendous Will, is still vulnerable if his CD is a 1 or 2.

You are correct that there is a lack of clarity in the rules regarding resisting resonances. For example, to defeat a Belseraph, on needs to only roll one's Will (Curtis would be safe from Belseraphs, which doesn't seem fair if he's facing a Baron Belseraph). And the blurb from the Habbalah suggests one need only roll one's Will to resist, but to surpass the CD to throw it back in their face.

I like the Distinction thing.

Let's face it, there is a lot of rework to be done on IN rules.

[Rocket Man]

Good points, both of you.

JCD, lack of clarity is exactly my problem. I guess it's not always clear to me which abilities are resisted and which are negated. Liber Canticorum was kind enough to create a chart that made the distinction for Songs; I wouldn't mind seeing a similar chart for Attunements and resonances.

I hadn't thought about the mechanic to boost the check digit. As a GM, I still kind of like using the Will-suppression one instead, just because it blows through the resistance without affecting the other "special effects" that the check digit controls. (As a player, of course, the standard mechanic gives you a much wider range of power fairly cheaply ... increased success AND increased effect!)

I'm glad the distinction idea went over well with both of you. It just seemed to make sense.

EDIT: By the way, what page contains the "Essence can boost check digit" rule? I've been trying to find it in the Core without luck.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

By the way, what page contains the "Essence can boost check digit" rule? I've been trying to find it in the Core without luck.

I don't think Essence affects check digit directly in most cases, but it can add to it if Essence is spent to push a target number over 12. Core Rules, p. 39:

Automatic Success
If the final target number is over 12, the roll cannot fail (barring Intervention, see p. 40). The amount over 12 adds to the automatically-successful roll’s check digit. For example, with a Strength of 8 and a Fighting skill of 6, you’d have a target number of 14 to hit someone – an automatic success with +2 to the check digit.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Jason

I don't think Essence affects check digit directly in most cases, but it can add to it if Essence is spent to push a target number over 12. Core Rules, p. 39:

That's what I thought -- it was the only reference I could find, in any case. I just wondered if JCD had spotted something I missed; it wouldn't be the first time.

[JCD]

No I looked. It was a rule in Songs (LC) which I pushed to other areas. Since Essence can directly power skills in a similar way, and with one able to take a risk to increase the target number or the CD, it seemed logical.

I also allow Essence to 'power' attributes ala Blood Points in WW.