Armor DX penalty and "point and shoot" weapons

[occam's spork]

Apologies if I missed this or if it has been covered ad nauseam. I am going to be starting up my TFT game eventually, and I've been re-familiarizing myself with the system (the legacy addition). I actually cut my teeth on the original TFT back in the 80's, so I can't wait.

But I'm having some questions pop up in my head about the system conceits. One such question is in regards to the DX penalty from armor with weapons that frankly don't require much in the way of free movement to use effectively. I'm talking about crossbows and firearms.

Has anyone reduced or done away with the DX penalty from armor when it comes to weapons like that?

[hcobb]

Just buy Missile Weapons, brace and aim your crossbow and you'll hardly notice the plate armor.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Just buy Missile Weapons, brace and aim your crossbow and you'll hardly notice the plate armor.

That's not particularly helpful.

Occam, you have a point that armor wouldn't have the same effect on crossbows or guns as other weapons (or at least I assume). But I try to keep the game reasonably simple and personally don't fuss about things like that.

I only fuss about really important things, like how many blood hawks can fit into a hex.

If you do change the effects of armor on crossbows and guns, you may find a glut of crossbows and guns in your games. It will kinda change the balance.

[occam's spork]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Occam, you have a point that armor wouldn't have the same effect on crossbows or guns as other weapons (or at least I assume). But I try to keep the game reasonably simple and personally don't fuss about things like that.

I only fuss about really important things, like how many blood hawks can fit into a hex.

If you do change the effects of armor on crossbows and guns, you may find a glut of crossbows and guns in your games. It will kinda change the balance.

I had wondered about that, but the slow ready period of such weapons might counter that, no? Then again, it does give a plate armored character an advantage for their first attack; they get to shoot, then drop the gun/crossbow and advance, gaining the armor bonus while they blast away. Kind of like the alien troopers in Krull.

And I agree, it's the obvious fiduciary responsibility of the GM to know how many blood hawks fit in a hex.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by occam's spork

I had wondered about that, but the slow ready period of such weapons might counter that, no? Then again, it does give a plate armored character an advantage for their first attack; they get to shoot, then drop the gun/crossbow and advance, gaining the armor bonus while they blast away. Kind of like the alien troopers in Krull.

And I agree, it's the obvious fiduciary responsibility of the GM to know how many blood hawks fit in a hex.

The answer is two, but seven if pureed.

[tomc]

Originally Posted by phiwum

The answer is two, but seven if pureed.

African or European blood hawks?

[hcobb]

Joe Bolter: ST 12, DX 10 (5), IQ 9
Talents: Crossbow, Missile Weapons III
Weapon: Light Crossbow (2d)
Armor: Plate

Joe has MW III (+3), is braced (+2), and has aimed for two turns (+2) at a non-dodging dragon sized (+2) target at point blank range. He needs to roll 14 or less to hit (90.74%).

Now if the target is hopping around him then that armor is gonna weigh him down a bit.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Joe Bolter: ST 12, DX 10 (5), IQ 9
Talents: Crossbow, Missile Weapons III
Weapon: Light Crossbow (2d)
Armor: Plate

Joe has MW III (+3), is braced (+2), and has aimed for two turns (+2) at a non-dodging dragon sized (+2) target at point blank range. He needs to roll 14 or less to hit (90.74%).

Now if the target is hopping around him then that armor is gonna weigh him down a bit.

I don't think that anyone doubted that with enough talents and ideal preparation, a crossbowman could take a high probability shot. All you've shown is that if time is no issue, this guy actually *can* hit the side of a barn.

[occam's spork]

Originally Posted by phiwum

I don't think that anyone doubted that with enough talents and ideal preparation, a crossbowman could take a high probability shot. All you've shown is that if time is no issue, this guy actually *can* hit the side of a barn.

Yeah, the question is whether it makes sense/is unbalancing/is worth bothering to account for such a change. It appears that the answers to those questions are; yes/maybe/eh...

Though, I have to admit, the scenario hcobb outlined provides fodder for an amusingly captioned meme.

[JohnPaulB]

As a player & GM of TFT in the '80s, I enjoyed using gunpowder weapons in any combat as long as the 25mm lead figure had it on them. Which usually meant that they were Warhammer types in heavier armor.

I lived with what the figure had on them to keep the visual continuity. I kept the DX Stop damage and DX penalties in order to keep rules continuity.

I didn't mind the heavier armor penalties because I routinely created 35 to 38 point figures for one-off adventures and would boost DX to make it work. Or perhaps magical armor or Fine armor. Sometimes I would lower the armor value by stating that the Chainmail was actually Cloth that was weaved in a chainmail style.

I found that using gunpowder weapons did not overbalance the game. A one-shot weapon that had to be ditched after use was not so unbalancing as a Wizard that threw Lightning that could be cranked up to 4d per turn (with enough ST).

A clever use of guns as a defender would be to set up several Arquebus next to each other. Fire one, next turn move to the next one hex and change weapons 3 more times (4 turns to ready), then next turn fire. Start process again. So you could fire every 6 turns.

And the type of thing that HCOBB suggested, I would routinely apply if needed.