Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2014, 02:49 PM   #81
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
Is there something in the Deadly Spring that allows you to use bows over your ST at a penalty? Using just the non-pyramid stuff, that's not possible.
I'm fairly sure that it is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by B270
The minimum Strength required to use the weapon properly. If you try to use a weapon that requires more ST than you have, you will be at -1 to weapon skill per point of ST you lack and lose one extra FP at the end of any fight that lasts long enough to fatigue you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Tech p. 75
Weaker users can shoot a stronger bow, but will suffer the standard skill penalty and FP loss for using an over-strength weapon.
This-
Quote:
Originally Posted by B270
You cannot use a stronger bow.
-besides not making much sense or matching anyone's actual experience with trying to shoot higher pull bows; seems to be superseded by Low-Tech p. 75. I'd call it errata, but I'm really fuzzy on what qualifies as errata these days.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 03:01 PM   #82
the_matrix_walker
 
the_matrix_walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Thank you! I'm so glad I asked, that's huge!
the_matrix_walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 05:14 PM   #83
safisher
Gunnery Sergeant,
 Imperial Marines
Coauthor,
 GURPS High-Tech
 
safisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
I don't think so; the idea that weight of bow drawn should be proportional to Basic Lift seems as clear as anything in GURPS' model can be.
Actually, in Basic Set there's little indication what a benchmark ST relates to in terms of bow performance, except for damage and range. Those are nowhere in Basic Set directly related to the lifting power ST, at least that I'm aware of. The ST and damage table goes all the back to the 1980s, and probably has very little to do with Mary Rose bows and all that anyway. Stat normalization, as being carried out in this thread, is generally not something the adventure game designers of GURPS have ever much cared about. It's certainly entertaining to posit the self-consistency of the system, and sometimes informative about what those decisions are, but it's really not something the writers I know work on to the exclusion of ease of use, or fun in play, or just simple brutal utilitarianism.

Quote:
If you have a reputable source estimating the draw weight of a Mary Rose bow under 100 lbs I would be grateful for the citation. Keep in mind that the authors have retracted their early estimates which were lower than the ones they now favour. Its still just a model of bows on one ship on one day, but as data for low-tech weapons goes its pretty solid.
I have seen the 80-130 pound range, albeit in a bit older books. My understanding is that the Mary Rose bows were not in any condition to physically test, and therefore the computer models used to determine their weight are subject to interpretation. I'm not disputing that they were not impressively powerful bows, nor that information could change to propose an increase in draw weights, but I do insist that these be taken with a grain of salt. It's in the interests of medievalists, bow aficionados, and academics, to continue to "contribute" to their findings on a routine basis. You can find this sort of "investigation" work in works like The Men of Mary Rose.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23.
My GURPS blog, Dark Journeys, is here.
Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here.

Last edited by safisher; 10-20-2014 at 06:32 PM.
safisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 05:39 PM   #84
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

[QUOTE=safisher;1827390]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post

. Stat normalization, as being carried out in this thread, [/I].
Please note that my stat normalization" is aimed mostly at the 15,000 guys at Agincourt and not the King's 100 best archers, much ;less exceptional PCs. What I doubt is 150 lbs x 15,000. Maybe 80lbs there unless they were using overly strong bows.

Incidentally, my reading is that you can use overly strong bows but it wouldn't raise your damage. You're not pulling the bow all the way back.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 05:44 PM   #85
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Please note that my stat normalization" is aimed mostly at the 15,000 guys at Agincourt and not the King's 100 best archers, much ;less exceptional PCs.
You said you couldn't field a company of guys that could do it. I'm willing to think that Henry VIII could field a company of 75 point guys.
Quote:
Incidentally, my reading is that you can use overly strong bows but it wouldn't raise your damage. You're not pulling the bow all the way back.
Why would you do it then? You take a penalty and lose extra FP and don't get any benefit at all? Why?
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 05:54 PM   #86
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You said you couldn't field a company of guys that could do it. I'm willing to think that Henry VIII could field a company of 75 point guys.
Why would you do it then? You take a penalty and lose extra FP and don't get any benefit at all? Why?
Maybe I was thinking of values of "you" smaller than "King of England" who very well may have had 2-3 companies.

You'd use an overstrength bow because no one built a bow to exactly match your ST.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 06:03 PM   #87
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

The English bows and arrows used on the battlefield were ordered in bulk and made to a generic standard. There might be a variety of "sizes" from which to choose, but they weren't tailored for a specific archer. You have to grab the bow that most closely matched the one you were used to. There are Middle Eastern texts recommending that soldiers use warbows that are less powerful than the ones they practiced with so their accuracy improves and they don't get exhausted as quickly but this may not transfer to English tactics.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.

Last edited by DanHoward; 10-20-2014 at 06:10 PM.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 06:07 PM   #88
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
The English bows and arrows used on the battlefield were ordered in bulk and made to a generic standard.
I wonder to what degree that's just 'cheapest way of doing it', and to what degree that's an actual benefit. There's some value to having everyone using a bow with the same ballistic properties.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 06:08 PM   #89
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
The bows and arrows used on the battlefield were ordered in bulk and made to a generic standard. There might be a variety of "sizes" from which to choose, but they weren't tailored for a specific archer. You have to grab the bow that most closely matched the one you were used to.
So there's no benefit to using an overstrength bow?

Well even that's the case, that 75 point character can still shoot that 180# bow as a 145# bow if there's no closer bows available.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2014, 06:13 PM   #90
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Incidentally, my reading is that you can use overly strong bows but it wouldn't raise your damage. You're not pulling the bow all the way back.
They are pulling them to full draw but they aren't holding them at full draw. You can't "aim" with them in the way that GURPS treats aiming.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
archery, bow, deadly spring, draw weight, pyramid 3/33, strongbow

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.