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Old 08-27-2015, 07:43 AM   #51
safisher
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by Humabout View Post
Like practical nuclear space ships producing enough Gs for passengers to be uncomfortably thrust into their acceleration couches? Or what about FTL subspace communications? For that matter, what about FTL propulsion at all?
Um, yeah. By the time we have nuclear powered spaceships running around at multiple Gs, and not baking the occupants, maybe all the internet experts will no longer be obsessed with explaining why stealth in space is impossible. But probably not.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:51 AM   #52
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by safisher View Post
Um, yeah. By the time we have nuclear powered spaceships running around at multiple Gs, and not baking the occupants, maybe all the internet experts will no longer be obsessed with explaining why stealth in space is impossible. But probably not.
If, rather than saying that stealth in space is impossible, people regularly chimed into discussions claiming that banking turns in space are impossible, would you object to that claim as vigorously?
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:13 AM   #53
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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If, rather than saying that stealth in space is impossible, people regularly chimed into discussions claiming that banking turns in space are impossible, would you object to that claim as vigorously?
Please go read up the thread. What I have said is that we might in fact have stealth in space in the far future, for all we know. I find it hilarious that all the posters here want to chime in about how "stealth in space is clearly stupid," while allowing without comment all the other TL^ technological assumptions that get you swooshing spaceships in space in the first place. It's not hard at all to posit reasons why, by the time you have reactionless thrusters, artificial gravity, and and fusion powered spacecraft, you might have very stealthy spacecraft, too. So the vigorous objectors have already come and gone, I'm afraid. Demanding peer reviewed journal article, no less. LOL!
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:24 AM   #54
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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I find it hilarious that all the posters here want to chime in about how "stealth in space is clearly stupid," while allowing without comment all the other TL^ technological assumptions that get you swooshing spaceships in space in the first place.
Is that what they're doing? "Stealth is impossible in space," seems to assume that we're talking about our current understanding of the world. We could just as easily say, "stealth is impossible whilst detonating hydrogen bombs." This too seems to assume that we're talking about our current understanding.

It may be possible to stealthily detonate hydrogen bombs in the Potomac and, with our current understanding of the way the world works, it seems about as plausible as submarine-like stealth in space.

Could this all be easily avoided by adding a small caveat to the statement? Different people have different understandings of what is physically possible even if we take current understanding for granted. Some people may believe the exotic matter needed for the Alcubierre drive is reasonably possible to procure, whereas other people might not, while both view their beliefs as falling squarely in the realm of hard science.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:30 AM   #55
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ View Post
Is that what they're doing? "Stealth is impossible in space," seems to assume that we're talking about our current understanding of the world.
I give you a TL^ cloaking device that still makes stealth in space impossible:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=12

The mind boggles.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:39 AM   #56
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by safisher View Post
Please go read up the thread. What I have said is that we might in fact have stealth in space in the far future, for all we know. I find it hilarious that all the posters here want to chime in about how "stealth in space is clearly stupid," while allowing without comment all the other TL^ technological assumptions that get you swooshing spaceships in space in the first place.
Nobody asked about them. That being said, no, warp drive has not at all moved out of the realm of pure super science seeing as how Alcubierre drive requires an imaginary material with arbitrarily absurd properties
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:12 AM   #57
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by safisher View Post
I find it hilarious that all the posters here want to chime in about how "stealth in space is clearly stupid," while allowing without comment all the other TL^ technological assumptions that get you swooshing spaceships in space in the first place. It's not hard at all to posit reasons why, by the time you have reactionless thrusters, artificial gravity, and and fusion powered spacecraft, you might have very stealthy spacecraft, too.
I find it hilarious that you're trying to make it other people's fault that they took your strenuous assertions about how it's silly to say stealth in space is impossible to be assertions about reality, not superscience.

GURPS Spaceships will cheerfully allow stealth in space with superscience. As, I expect, will anyone posting in this thread. Although, perversely, for best effects you want your ship to have a fuel cell aboard because that (or a solar panel) is the only way to generate power points (allowing you to run the cloak) without invalidating a stealth hull. A cloaked ship can be fairly stealthy, but a cloaked ship with a TL10 or so stealth hull in effect is very stealthy.

(Also perhaps both perversely and reasonably, Cosmic power can make stealth much easier by allowing the cloaking device to run on auxiliary power.)
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:15 AM   #58
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by safisher View Post
I give you a TL^ cloaking device that still makes stealth in space impossible:
How is a -10 modifier making stealth impossible?
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Old 08-27-2015, 10:52 AM   #59
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by warellis View Post
If one has reactionless engines, a refrigerated hull, & some form of heat sinks, how much easier is it to have some type of "stealth" in space?
Well back in the thread, I said I didn't think there were any rules for that.

I wasn't entirely right about that.

The external radiator design switch includes rules (not very involved or realistic, likely, but rules) for ships overheating when the radiators are retracted, and for using heat sinks to hold off that event. These could provide a starting point to build on.

While I don't see any rules about how that interacts with detection, it would be reasonable to suggest that reactors have reduced heat signature when radiators are shut down. (Rockets probably shouldn't, because of hot exhaust, but that doesn't matter if you're using reactionless.)

If you give that a -2 to signature, fission reactors are compatible with stealth. If you gave a -3 or more, all reactors would be.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:51 AM   #60
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Heat Signature, Cloaking Device, and Stealth Hull

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
The external radiator design switch includes rules (not very involved or realistic, likely, but rules) for ships overheating when the radiators are retracted, and for using heat sinks to hold off that event.
Thirty minutes before shutdown is probably a bit generous, but it's not absurd. Doing so would normally negate any specific heat signature from the reactor, though your ship will still have a normal signature. Problem is that, well, 30 minutes of stealth isn't very much.
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