Martial arts for the man-at-arms

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by Anders

Plate is probably not cheap, since only Dwarves can make it and they are very finicky with who they sell to.

So, it's only good quality or better for plate?

[Anders]

No cheap plate, no. I'll probably arbitrarily double the base price of plate armor - the steel can only be made in the deepest bowels of the Earth, where the lava spirits are chained to the furnaces. Also, the spirits of the ore must consent to be made into whatever the dwarves make it into, and that may be rare. Adjust to taste, really.

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by Anders

That's what I thought. Striking arts would be dangerous to use when there's metal armor involved... How about Sumo Wrestling?

It's what the PC fighter in my campaign uses (or at least did, before he started relying on shield rushes instead). It's good for closing distance; a slam is usually more effective than a move and attack, and lower risk than a committed or all-out lunge.

It also comes in handy when trying to capture a fleeing opponent alive, or if they're in town unarmed. The fighter puts the target down, then the entire party joins the kerbstomping...

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Anders

No cheap plate, no. I'll probably arbitrarily double the base price of plate armor - the steel can only be made in the deepest bowels of the Earth, where the lava spirits are chained to the furnaces. Also, the spirits of the ore must consent to be made into whatever the dwarves make it into, and that may be rare. Adjust to taste, really.

Plate is already available at TL3, although lack of sliding rivets means chinks are easier to target. The primary problem with such plate is that it's made of bronze, and is therefore quite expensive. Of course, while the description of Dwarven Plate sounds like it would be extremely expensive, it's going to need to cost at least equal to the bronze equivalent (unless you opt to make it not suffer the no-sliding-rivets problem). Doubling the base cost works if you're looking at everyone just getting Good quality plate, but once you start adding in Tailoring and Fluting, bronze is going to be far superior (a DR 6 Fluted Bronze Plate Cuirass is going to be around $20,000, a DR 6 Fluted Dwarven Plate Cuirass is going to be around $25,000; it gets worse if you go for higher CF options and/or Styling). Unless you want this (let's face it, bronze looks a lot better than iron), I'd suggest increasing the price in the form of a CF modifier. +1 will give you the same end price for Good quality and keep superiority over bronze. +2 will make Good quality more costly than your doubling, but will maintain superiority over bronze. +3 makes it equal to bronze... if you want to go this route (or higher), I suggest ignoring the sliding rivets rule for Dwarven plate.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Anders

That's what I thought. Striking arts would be dangerous to use when there's metal armor involved... How about Sumo Wrestling?

I like it.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Plate is already available at TL3, although lack of sliding rivets means chinks are easier to target. The primary problem with such plate is that it's made of bronze, and is therefore quite expensive. Of course, while the description of Dwarven Plate sounds like it would be extremely expensive, it's going to need to cost at least equal to the bronze equivalent (unless you opt to make it not suffer the no-sliding-rivets problem). Doubling the base cost works if you're looking at everyone just getting Good quality plate, but once you start adding in Tailoring and Fluting, bronze is going to be far superior (a DR 6 Fluted Bronze Plate Cuirass is going to be around $20,000, a DR 6 Fluted Dwarven Plate Cuirass is going to be around $25,000; it gets worse if you go for higher CF options and/or Styling). Unless you want this (let's face it, bronze looks a lot better than iron), I'd suggest increasing the price in the form of a CF modifier. +1 will give you the same end price for Good quality and keep superiority over bronze. +2 will make Good quality more costly than your doubling, but will maintain superiority over bronze. +3 makes it equal to bronze... if you want to go this route (or higher), I suggest ignoring the sliding rivets rule for Dwarven plate.

It does not at all follow that bronze plate for every part of the body is available in every quality, let alone available at the list price, let alone with every modifier such as Fluting.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Plate is already available at TL3, although lack of sliding rivets means chinks are easier to target. The primary problem with such plate is that it's made of bronze, and is therefore quite expensive. Of course, while the description of Dwarven Plate sounds like it would be extremely expensive, it's going to need to cost at least equal to the bronze equivalent (unless you opt to make it not suffer the no-sliding-rivets problem). Doubling the base cost works if you're looking at everyone just getting Good quality plate, but once you start adding in Tailoring and Fluting, bronze is going to be far superior (a DR 6 Fluted Bronze Plate Cuirass is going to be around $20,000, a DR 6 Fluted Dwarven Plate Cuirass is going to be around $25,000; it gets worse if you go for higher CF options and/or Styling). Unless you want this (let's face it, bronze looks a lot better than iron), I'd suggest increasing the price in the form of a CF modifier. +1 will give you the same end price for Good quality and keep superiority over bronze. +2 will make Good quality more costly than your doubling, but will maintain superiority over bronze. +3 makes it equal to bronze... if you want to go this route (or higher), I suggest ignoring the sliding rivets rule for Dwarven plate.

Interesting. I'll have to think about this.

[The Colonel]

...or you could have a non-bronze using culture (no tin perhaps?). Sub-Saharan Africa managed to go more or less straight to iron ...
Or in a fantasy culture, you could even rule that the dwarves are only selling steel plate and human armourers lack the skill to duplicate it in bronze - human made armour is either steel mail or non-articulated plate in bronze or steel. Full plate is only dwarvish and only steel. And probably a pain to get repaired unless there are a lot of dwarven repair shops above ground.

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by Anders

I probably won't be using styles - I don't need the detail - but it's still useful to know which skills would be good.

Even if you won't be using it, review the period martial styles in MA for skill lists, it will make sure you haven't missed anything.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

...or you could have a non-bronze using culture (no tin perhaps?). Sub-Saharan Africa managed to go more or less straight to iron ...
Or in a fantasy culture, you could even rule that the dwarves are only selling steel plate and human armourers lack the skill to duplicate it in bronze - human made armour is either steel mail or non-articulated plate in bronze or steel. Full plate is only dwarvish and only steel. And probably a pain to get repaired unless there are a lot of dwarven repair shops above ground.

I'm converting a Swedish original setting, and their approach to bronze is... interesting. It's not as good as iron, but on the other hand it's cheaper. Since this makes No Sense I have decided to change things. But they do have bronze.