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Old 07-19-2017, 09:34 AM   #2711
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Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
Please define your term "National Socialism". No modern government in our world is Nazi.
It's a bit hard to keep straight with three different reality seeds being discussed but this version of National Socialism was defined in post #2698. Essentially, an emotionally colder, less racist, Nazi Germany that won WWII.

A couple of points on that post. Given that the only part of Europe that didn't fall to the Nazis (or maybe it did but wasn't explicitly mentioned) was Iceland, I'm inclined to doubt that the U.S.-led alliance calls itself NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization). NORTO (North America Treaty Organization), ASTO (American States Treaty Organization) if most nations in the Western hemisphere declare war on the Reich, UNTO (United Nations Treaty Organization) if the principal allies are Australia, Canada and New Zealand, WTO (Western Treaty Organization), if you don't mind confusion with the real-world WTO, would be other potential contenders.

The U.S./Empire of Japan as a separate war seems a bit unlikely. The only way to keep Britain and the Commonwealth out of it would be to have them at least neutral to the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor. To do so, the Japanese need to not take Hong Kong and be willing to leave other British possessions in peace. If the U.K. is willing to sell things like rubber and oil to Japan, things get harder for the U.S., especially if the U.K. can persuade the Netherlands government-in-exile to add Indonesian resources to the pot. Given that the U.S./Japanese war was more difficult, this isn't that implausible and may explain why the U.S. isn't staunchly anti-Nazi. In this version, the Reich apparently only offered the U.S. its sincerest best wishes vs. Japan, but that might have been enough to explain it. If they'd sold the U.S. plans, for say Panzer Vs and Panzer VIs, for use against the Japanese in exchange for some American over-production, Nazis might even be regarded with some favour.

Another point with the Commonwealth siding with Japan would be that the U.S. potentially has Australia, New Zealand and Canada as enemies. (There are smaller British Commonwealth countries that would be U.S. enemies as well, but this presumes that the U.S. wants to take the "big guys" down first. It might also chase after Dutch and French colonial possessions in the Western hemisphere while it's at it.)
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:16 AM   #2712
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
It's a bit hard to keep straight with three different reality seeds being discussed but this version of National Socialism was defined in post #2698. Essentially, an emotionally colder, less racist, Nazi Germany that won WWII.

A couple of points on that post. Given that the only part of Europe that didn't fall to the Nazis (or maybe it did but wasn't explicitly mentioned) was Iceland, I'm inclined to doubt that the U.S.-led alliance calls itself NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization). NORTO (North America Treaty Organization), ASTO (American States Treaty Organization) if most nations in the Western hemisphere declare war on the Reich, UNTO (United Nations Treaty Organization) if the principal allies are Australia, Canada and New Zealand, WTO (Western Treaty Organization), if you don't mind confusion with the real-world WTO, would be other potential contenders.

The U.S./Empire of Japan as a separate war seems a bit unlikely. The only way to keep Britain and the Commonwealth out of it would be to have them at least neutral to the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor. To do so, the Japanese need to not take Hong Kong and be willing to leave other British possessions in peace. If the U.K. is willing to sell things like rubber and oil to Japan, things get harder for the U.S., especially if the U.K. can persuade the Netherlands government-in-exile to add Indonesian resources to the pot. Given that the U.S./Japanese war was more difficult, this isn't that implausible and may explain why the U.S. isn't staunchly anti-Nazi. In this version, the Reich apparently only offered the U.S. its sincerest best wishes vs. Japan, but that might have been enough to explain it. If they'd sold the U.S. plans, for say Panzer Vs and Panzer VIs, for use against the Japanese in exchange for some American over-production, Nazis might even be regarded with some favour.

Another point with the Commonwealth siding with Japan would be that the U.S. potentially has Australia, New Zealand and Canada as enemies. (There are smaller British Commonwealth countries that would be U.S. enemies as well, but this presumes that the U.S. wants to take the "big guys" down first. It might also chase after Dutch and French colonial possessions in the Western hemisphere while it's at it.)
The NATO I described was North American Treaty Organization. The state of Iceland in that Timeline isn't specified, but I imagine they'd be safe until England's surrender. If the US Navy is freed up, they'd probably stay out of the Reich. Disposition is probably either NATO or deliberately neutral.

The split war is a result of Nazi plotting and treachery. It is deliberate manipulation designed to peel a marginally isolationist US from the European conflict. In describing 80 years of timeline, the exact manipulation seemed too finely resolved. However, to address it specifically, I'd imagine duplicity involving England's territorial division. However, the Reich doesn't care about keeping England out of east Asia. More distractions the better from their POV. Keeping the US out of Europe is the goal. Everyone knows this, but it doesn't change the domestic reality, particularly with Nazis flinging bio weapons.

We may be conflating timelines again, but I respond just in case.
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:31 PM   #2713
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A conversation with my neighbor led me to this world. We were talking about the Jurassic Park films and he mentioned that some Velociraptor eggs were taken off the island and that that plot point was never followed up on. So...

A world Jumper and major obsessed fanboy of the Jurassic Park fanchise steals Velociraptor eggs to raise as pets (and he got the really cinematically intelligent Velociraptors from the later films). He came to a bad end and suddenly this Q6 world is in deep trouble. The Velociraptors are now in the wild in South America, having escaped from the world jumper's ranch in an isolated rural area south of the Rio Putumayo in southern Colombia.

Much of rural South America is deserted. Cities and towns are armed camps. The Velociraptor packs are stealthy and seem to be learning how to ambush troops. The high Andes are too cold for the Raptors as is the southernmost areas of the continent. The deserts of Northern Mexico are also a barrier to the Velociraptor packs. The Mexican government has collapsed. The states of Baja California and Sonora have joined the US, others are pending. The remnants of the Mexican army and large parts of the US Army are maintaining defensive positions.

Russia and an alliance of China and India are near war because the FSB has smuggled Raptor eggs into Thailand. China and India seek to slaughter the raptors and punish Russia. Some Raptors seem to have been smuggled into Africa as well. The US Navy, backed by the UN and the navies of NATO are searching ships on the high seas to prevent further smuggling.

Local year 2017.

Note: The Supreme Court declared an emergency and canceled the 2016 election. Obama has gotten them to promise elections, including a presidential one in 2018.

Any fun?
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:38 PM   #2714
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A conversation with my neighbor led me to this world. We were talking about the Jurassic Park films and he mentioned that some Velociraptor eggs were taken off the island and that that plot point was never followed up on. So...
It was, IIRC, in the book.
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Old 07-23-2017, 02:32 PM   #2715
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If we did not delay elections for the U.S. Civil War, I don't see them being delayed for anything short of an alien invasion.
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Old 07-23-2017, 03:25 PM   #2716
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I'd also note that, while velociraptors are really terrifying for unprepared, unarmed individuals, they're not that scary for people who know what they're doing.

Get some military K-9 units to act as spotters, and surround them with a couple of platoons of guys with automatic rifles, body armor, and claymore mines, and the 'raptors won't last long.
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Old 07-24-2017, 12:05 AM   #2717
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I'd also note that, while velociraptors are really terrifying for unprepared, unarmed individuals, they're not that scary for people who know what they're doing.
It also seems to suffer from a problem of scale - a ranch full of velociraptors is not going to collapse *South America*, and don't have a food supply that will let them build up to even a serious local threat, even assuming nobody bothered to hunt them out during the decades that would take.

There is a geography problem too - there are some serious natural barriers in the way of expanding their range way before those deserts. Even with millions of years to make the trip, the megafauna of North and South America was different when humans arrived.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:44 AM   #2718
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It also seems to suffer from a problem of scale - a ranch full of velociraptors is not going to collapse *South America*, and don't have a food supply that will let them build up to even a serious local threat, even assuming nobody bothered to hunt them out during the decades that would take.

There is a geography problem too - there are some serious natural barriers in the way of expanding their range way before those deserts. Even with millions of years to make the trip, the megafauna of North and South America was different when humans arrived.
There are natural barriers in our way, but are they barriers to velociraptors? Not having seen a live 'raptor, I can't answer that question.

Astromancer says the outbreak started in Columbia. Will the Darién Gap be as much a hindrance to them as it is to us moving between the Americas? (link to WikiVoyage, to illustrate the dangers of traveling through the area)
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:10 AM   #2719
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Upon reflection, I suspect that the Panama Canal would prove to be a hard barrier. It would take time for them to reach it, time that would tell everyone the threat level. Given the economic importance of the canal, expect belts of mines, electrified wire, and machine gun positions.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:55 AM   #2720
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Wasn't the main barrier the "dinosaurs" had in the books something about them not being able to eat most animals outside of that theme park island? And weren't the velociraptors showing that somehow that genetic limitation was failing or something?

IIRC they were able to eat chickens or something which showed the limits placed on them were failing.
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