01-06-2019, 12:06 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
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How much of a problem this is depends on the group, point totals, and many other things, but it can be an issue. I just don't think it's nearly the problem that the original poster seems to. I also think that people who claim that attributes equal 'natural talent' and points in skills equal 'training' are incorrect. Attributes also represent broad training and the ability to transfer and generalise training across many skills, and points in skills can be natural talent as well as training. Talents are explicitly natural talent, as are some advantages, but not much else is explicitly one thing or the other.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." Last edited by Rupert; 01-06-2019 at 12:09 PM. |
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01-06-2019, 01:06 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
Is a character "inefficient" if it's doing what I want it to do? If two people make martial artists, and one optimizes the hell out of the system, while the other doesn't, then, yes, you will have issue where one can do more for the points. But the system isn't "broken" just because there are multiple ways to look at something - your goals might be very different from mine.
I recently tried running a d20-based campaign with several first-time role-players [because they had heard of it and wanted to try it]. They almost immediately started asking if they could raise certain skills [such as bow, shield, sneaking, and so on] with training, and were disappointed when I said, "Sorry, you only go up in skill when you go up in level, and then it's all-or-nothing" [I'm over-simplifying here for brevity]. We switched to GURPS [my go-to system], and they have been very happy with the options they now have for character specialization, development, and skill-use. I didn't have to ride them to make their characters "efficient" - they all turned in concept-based characters with good backgrounds, and built them from there. It all depends on what you're looking for. But "buy up your stat to save points" shouldn't be the motivation. If you want a skilled gunsmith and marksman, then spend points in appropriate skills, don't buy an Olympic-level DX to make it cheaper to get the same numbers. |
01-06-2019, 02:16 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
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But I can't say I like the idea of granting free Character Points for spending Character Points, even if they're limited in how they can be spent. If nothing else it starts to become a mess of point-accounting. |
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01-06-2019, 02:39 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
Perhaps then it should be that every CP invested in skills and techniques allows for one CP to be invested in abilities (rather than giving them for free).
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01-06-2019, 03:40 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
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That'd work fine, in my limited estimation. But I'm not sure it solves your problem unless your players really like buying those abilities. |
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01-06-2019, 04:53 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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01-06-2019, 05:12 PM | #37 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
That's not quite what I mean by "optimize" - you obviously need to focus on the appropriate skills to play a Knight or wizard. I meant, don't buy higher stats just to save points if that isn't in keeping with your character design.
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01-07-2019, 12:46 AM | #38 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
The thing is, because a knight, unlike a commoner, needs to spend a fair bit on Status (and possibly other advantages that reflect their station), and because a 'warrior-mage' has a spread focus, unless they have plenty of points, they have to be optimised in terms of attributes (and everything else) to be as good at general adventuring and mayhem, unless the rest of the party is very non-optimal in build or built with fewer points.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
01-07-2019, 08:19 AM | #39 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
Sorry, you've misunderstood me. Buying knightly skills for a knight or wizard skills for a wizard isn't the issue; that sort of optimization is required. My objection is to "optimizing" your character by saving character points spent on skills by simply raising the underlying stat instead, when doing so isn't part of your character concept.
But I see this is getting off-topic, so now I've explained myself, I'll retire from this now. |
01-07-2019, 05:43 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Skills, Techniques, and Abilities
I've heard that notion before, but I've always thought the opposite view was equally valid. Enough diverse experience is represented by higher attributes. For example, if you study a lot of different subjects you'll increase your overall knowledge rather than focusing on one skill. Likewise, if you do a lot of different physical activities, that generally helps you do new things better as well.
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