Methods of pricing higher-TL gear.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Now I'm thinking about what kind of equipment alien explorers with paramilitary equipment and training might have, and the advantages they'd effectively grant. Something like:

• Laser Carbine: Burning Attack 5d (Armor Divisor 2, +50%; Acc 12, +45%; Range 500/1500; +45%; RoF 10, +100%) [85]
• Nanoweave Vacc Suit: Doesn't Breathe [20] + DR 15 (Flexible, -20%) [60] + DR 15 (Flexible, -20%; Limited, Only vs. cutting and piercing, -20%) [45] + Pressure Support 1 [5] + Temperature Tolerance [65] + Vacuum Support [5]
• Trauma Plates: DR 46 (Semi-Ablative, -20%; Torso Only, -10%) [161]
• Hyperspectral Visor: Hyperspectral Vision [25] + Telescopic Vision 1 [5]
• Multispectral Chameleon Surface: Something like Chameleon 2 (Extended, Infrared and ultraviolet, +40%) [14] + Chameleon 2 (Extended, Infrared, +20%) [12]—not sure how to handle the extended low-band / extended high-band issue.

Of course this isn't all—microbots or scout robots for scouting (Allies?), weapon electronics, and various fancy grenades (paralysis gas and so on). Not sure what a fair price for this is in a supers game, but maybe a useful starting point for discussion.

Is anything there something supers cannot do in the campaign setting? If not, price like gear with metatronic generators, but reduce cost by a factor of ten. If it's uncommon enough that not many supers would have it, use the standard amounts for MG costs. Otherwise, call it x10 and leave it be.

[AlexanderHowl]

I still think that it would be simpler to purchase advantage gear with Signature Equipment. If the character possesses High TL, just double the cost per TL to reflect the added utility.

A TL10 laser carbine would cost $18,400 at TL8, so it would require 2 CP. You could toss in 10 TL10 C-cells at 5× normal cost to guarantee replacement, increasing the cost by $2,000, and a TL10 CTS (with TL10 B-cells) for an additional $4,015, increasing the final cost to less than $25,000, costing 3 CP of Signature Gear. A TL10 Commando Armor with the associated bells of whistles, and plenty of guaranteed replacement E-cells, would end up costing 60 CP of Signature Gear. While it is different than the advantage cost, I think that it is more straightforward, simpler, and cheaper.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

A specific problem I'm trying to solve: I previously ran a 600 point superhero one-shot, with none of the characters having access to advanced technology. But if I run a future adventure or campaign in the same setting, I might have a player who wants to play such a PC—either an alien or a gadgeteer (or an alien gadgeteer).

By the basic rules, just do the double cost per TL thing for the character's starting equipment. An inventor has to invent anything else using local materials. Use the special modifiers listed on pages B473–4: "-5 if the basic technology is totally new to the campaign (regardless of TL)" and "-1 to -10 (GM's discretion) if the inventor must make do with anything less than the most advanced tools and facilities for his TL."

So I'm trying to figure out how to make that balanced.

What does that mean, exactly? What isn't already balanced that needs to be?

[qchap]

I don't know, maybe I should better create new topic for this question, but I don't understand how to price lower-TL gear. E.g. we have TL 5 world. TL5 Derringer, .41 costs 100$ in the Basic Set table, and TL4 Wheel-Lock Pistol, .60 costs 200$, while being completely worse in all cases. And I think that poor characters should realistically have more access to outdated stuff, it should be cheaper (if it's not antiquity, of course).
Maybe I missing some rule? How do you solve this problem?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by qchap

I should better create new topic for this question, but I don't understand how to price lower-TL gear

In general, that difference is accounted for not by lowering earlier prices (with a constant wealth level for starting PCs), but by keeping the GURP$buck constant and increasing the wealth at later TLs. See the table on B27. TL8 wealth is 4x that of TL5, for instance. You don't lower the price of everything at TL5 by a factor of 4, but that $100 item is effectively 1/4th as expensive as it was at TL 5 because you've got 4x the wealth.

It might be worth noting that a lot of items manufactured at higher tech aren't necessarily any different than lower-tech versions. Sometimes you get improvements, but something like a carbon steel hunting knife hasn't changed a lot in the last three or four tech levels. The lower effective cost comes from the improvements in manufacturing, the supply chain, and so on that make almost everything cheaper, not because that knife lacks super-tech alloys or embedded microchips. (Which, if you're so inclined, you can still pay extra for to get a proper TL8 knife :)

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by qchap

Maybe I missing some rule? How do you solve this problem?

On a case by case basis. As the GM if you feel the Wheellock should be cheaper, then make it cheaper.

It has the cost it does as at the time of it's manufacture, it was expensive to make. The Derringer has the cost it has, because at the time of it's manufacture, it is cheap to make.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Is anything there something supers cannot do in the campaign setting? If not, price like gear with metatronic generators, but reduce cost by a factor of ten. If it's uncommon enough that not many supers would have it, use the standard amounts for MG costs. Otherwise, call it x10 and leave it be.

Hmmm. That's an interesting way to look at it. Part of my setting assumption is that supers are rare and powerful PC-level supers are very rare. So all of this is "uncommon" in a sense. The one thing that borders on totally unavailable to supers is the armor—I wouldn't veto it, but it would be really expensive point-cost wise, even if you approach it as layering DR from powers with DR provided by TL8 ballistic armor.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Hmmm. That's an interesting way to look at it. Part of my setting assumption is that supers are rare and powerful PC-level supers are very rare. So all of this is "uncommon" in a sense. The one thing that borders on totally unavailable to supers is the armor—I wouldn't veto it, but it would be really expensive point-cost wise, even if you approach it as layering DR from powers with DR provided by TL8 ballistic armor.

It's what I did for Aeon (my supers campaign) and it worked just fine.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Now I'm thinking about what kind of equipment alien explorers with paramilitary equipment and training might have, and the advantages they'd effectively grant. Something like:
<snip>

That's how I would do it. I prefer to use advantages rather than equipment for Supers games provided the equipment will not be something you can go out and buy. That's true even for gadgeteers.

An invading alien army works well using gadgets, especially if the earth locals can't repair/refuel. Often alien gear wouldn't be easy to pick up and use, either. It's fairly realistic that one of these would be an issue:
- fingering
- armor that is made for a different size/shape.
- touch screens that are triggered differently than ours.
- the alien biology is part of the power source
- it has a security lock that would need to be hacked

In a time or space travel, where you're constantly switching TLs I use equipment rules but the local costs for where the PCs are at that given time.

[qchap]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

In general, that difference is accounted for not by lowering earlier prices (with a constant wealth level for starting PCs), but by keeping the GURP$buck constant and increasing the wealth at later TLs. See the table on B27. TL8 wealth is 4x that of TL5, for instance. You don't lower the price of everything at TL5 by a factor of 4, but that $100 item is effectively 1/4th as expensive as it was at TL 5 because you've got 4x the wealth.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

It has the cost it does as at the time of it's manufacture, it was expensive to make. The Derringer has the cost it has, because at the time of it's manufacture, it is cheap to make.

Ok, I understand it, but the question is what to do during the TL5? TL4'th Wheel-Lock somehow ended up being more expansive than TL5'th Derringer by the table. Yes, it maybe was more expensive during TL4, but now is TL5 and it should become much more cheaper, so that a poor adventurer could chose the older gear because it's cheaper.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

On a case by case basis. As the GM if you feel the Wheellock should be cheaper, then make it cheaper.

Of course it's obvious. I just wanted someone to help me with it. How much cheaper should it be? I want in to work with every gear in every TL, not just this one. Should I divide the cost by 4 at every TL difference? Or it should be another divisor? Or even completely another formula? This is my question.