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Old 06-01-2018, 10:14 AM   #21
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

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Originally Posted by DocRailgun View Post
I

There are also lots of options for combat healing that isn't clerical or druidic - paladin laying on hands, bards have access to Cure spells, other characters can take a Feat after 4th level that will allow them to take a small number of druidic or bard spells (Magic Initiate)or maybe the Healer feat (with which a healing kit can be used to heal 1d6 + 4 + the healed character's max hit dice).
.....and one step removed from this is the Herbalism proficiency. As near as I can tell anyone who has it and the right kit (which my character got from his Hermit Background) can take 1 day and 25 GP of ingredients and make a least Healing Potion.
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:53 PM   #22
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

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In 5th edition one can take a short rest (at least an hour) and roll a number of hit dice they shoose, up to their level. They also add their Con bonus to this roll (if this reminds you of rolling hit points, there's a reason for that - it's the same). Obviously that's not so much for low-level characters, but also remember that even wizards are d6 hp now.
My group's experience was that we had 2-3 near total party wipes at low levels, when a large area effect attack dropped 60+ % of the party below 0 HP. Then everyone got captured when the opposition dog-piled the remaining party members.

At higher levels, after the Cleric got the healing spell that gives a minor boost to everyone, that stopped happening. Because the sole surviving party member would apply a healing potion to the cleric, who would pop up and use the 3rd level group healing spell to bring everyone else up. We might run away at that point, or continue to fight with some people falling down and reviving repeatedly.

My experience with 5th edition was you really needed a reliable and quick source of combat healing, because the difference between "in the fight, ready to go" and "down for the count" was 2-3 good hits. Monsters didn't have to focus very much fire on a PC to drop them.

The out of combat healing was nice, but we didn't rely on it very much because we were either running way ahead of the attrition race or very much running behind. There wasn't a lot of steady grind where we could rest up and try again.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

The only experience I have with 5e is vicariously through my Son, here is his critique.
From my Son, Alex;

I built a cleric from the core PHB, It was an elvish cleric (I like the ability of using bows as a racial weapon no matter what my class is, this also opens me up to short swords and long swords) I rolled 17, 15, 14, 12, 12, 9. (roll 4 drop lowest) Using dexterity as my primary stat, I put the 17 +2 giving me 19 total. Followed by wisdom, all the way down the line leaving my strength as a paltry 9 because who needs strength?

Secondly I chose my path, Light, because if you look at the light domain it provides you with a rather neat ability as a cleric to beat people over the head with fireballs without ever branching into arcane casting levels, burning hands, and flaming sphere are nothing to sneeze at when you can cast them from your domain while still healing as a cleric.

Third I chose my weapons very specifically, twin short swords (remember elves are always proficient in those) which grants me the ability to dual wield light weapons.

At level 1 I was using burning hands when I wanted to kill large masses at a time, guided bolt and a long bow when people were outside my range, and the twin short swords when distance was close. With how the system is built I have a strength of 9 (-1 damage and to hit) but due to ranged and light weapons I was doing 19 dex (+4 to hit and damage) as well as the obvious ability of dex (+4 ac) giving me a total of +7 to hit, +4 damage, and an AC of 18 with fairly cheap armor.

I was dual swinging with a high enough to hit number I rarely missed doing 2d6+8 per round, meanwhile our barbarian with a great sword was doing 1d12+4 giving him a LOWER average damage, and less armor as he did not have dex as his primary ability.

Our Sorcerer was matching my spell casting ability the only difference is he had more than 1 element. but he was doing no more damage than me even though his job was to SPECIALIZE in damaging magics.

And on top of these rather impressive abilities I was able to use healing not only as touch effects, but as ranged effects some of which even as a BONUS action still allowing me to attack anyone near me, then bring my allies back from the jaws of death.

The only class that I 'mimicked' that did better than me was the ranger, for they had ranger abilities that granted them higher to hits with the bow than I could do with my dexterity alone.

With all of this being said I truly believe the ultimate party is 1 rogue, and 3 dexterity based light domain elvish clerics.

The only reason to build a strength based character is to wear heavy armor without a hit on the AC (even then they will do less damage than I will) and the Sorcerer/ Wizard are only for variations, although the sorcerer is fairly useless now that the Wizard has spell slots and can choose which spell to cast when. A wizard is now a sorcerer with the ability to shift spells each day.

If even after all that you are still wondering what I'm trying to say, I used the PHB to break the game, I made 2 1/2 (ranger) players useless by playing a cleric.
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Old 06-02-2018, 02:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

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At level 1 I was using burning hands when I wanted to kill large masses at a time, guided bolt and a long bow when people were outside my range, and the twin short swords when distance was close. With how the system is built I have a strength of 9 (-1 damage and to hit) but due to ranged and light weapons I was doing 19 dex (+4 to hit and damage) as well as the obvious ability of dex (+4 ac) giving me a total of +7 to hit, +4 damage, and an AC of 18 with fairly cheap armor.

I was dual swinging with a high enough to hit number I rarely missed doing 2d6+8 per round, meanwhile our barbarian with a great sword was doing 1d12+4 giving him a LOWER average damage, and less armor as he did not have dex as his primary ability.
Only light armour (11-12 base AC) gives you your full Dex bonus, medium armour (12-15 base AC, though 15 is very expensive) caps the Dex bonus at 2. For a starting cleric to get AC 18 take Chain Mail (16 base, no dex bonus at all) and a shield (adds 2), Chain Mail is cheap (or free if using the starting gear bundles and you are proficient in heavy armour (all Domains but Light)).

Also, you only add your stat bonus to off hand damage if you have the Two-Weapon Fighting style from Fighter lvl 1 or Ranger lvl 2.

So by the rules the example give AC 16 and 2d6+4 melee damage.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

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.I used the PHB to break the game
No, you didn’t. As noted above some rules were ignored.

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and 2d6+4 melee damage.
IF both attacks hit.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:12 PM   #26
Anthony
 
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

The other mistake is rolling for attributes. If one person rolls well and another rolls badly, that's guaranteed to break the game.

Let's look at a 27 point build. Figure base attributes of 15 Wis (9), 14 Dex (7), 14 Con (7), 8 Str (0), 10 Int (2), 10 Cha (2). With racial bonuses for a Wood elf, Wis 16, Dex 16.

AC will be 16 in Scale, 14 in Leather; Studded Leather is still cheap (in fact, cheaper than scale, the starting gear setup is a bit unfair) and gives AC 15 (and doesn't penalize stealth). Your bow attack is +5/1d8+3; your shortsword primary attack is +5/1d6+3; if you use two-weapon fighting your secondary attack is +5/1d6, for a total of +5/2d6+3(10). You can use a cantrip for 1d8/DC 13, and a couple of spells.

Now, let's compare a barbarian. Somewhat humorously, it's actually possible to use two weapon fighting with two shortswords as a barbarian, and it even makes sense because your barbarian rage bonus applies to both attacks (this may not be working as intended). The barbarian needs strength, but doesn't need wis, so it works out even enough; let's be simple and have a human barbarian, with base attributes of 15 Str (9), 13 Dex (5), 15 Con (9), 11 Wis (3), 9 Cha (1), 8 Int (0), all of which get bumped by 1 for being human.

AC is 15 unarmored, though he'll want more armor later. If he uses two shortswords, which is weird but allowed, he'll be attacking with Strength. If he's raging, which there's no real reason not to as he gets 2 per day and they last 10 rounds, attack is +5/1d6+5, and two-weapon fighting attack is +5/1d6+2, for a total of +5/2d6+7 (14).

14 > 10. AC is equal, but 10 hp vs 15 hp and resistance to slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning is nowhere close to equal.
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:58 AM   #27
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

Another point against the suggested Light Cleric build is that it scales very poorly with level. It sinks a bunch of resources in weapon attacks but weapon attacks are dead ends in DnD unless you have some scaling class ability (e.g. Sneak Attack, Fighter Extra Attack, Smite, etc) and a Light Cleric have none of that. At least other Domains get Divine Strike to keep their melee somewhat relevant.

A Light Cleric really need to go all in on Wisdom to get good Spell DC/Attack and for Potent Spellcasting on lvl 8 (at which point Sacred Flame handily outdamages a Longbow, it gets kind of equal at level 5 with 2d8 assuming you have a decent Spell DC). Get 14 Dex for +2 ac with medium armour, use a shield. As much Con as you can afford, enough Str to not be encumbered all the time.
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Old 06-03-2018, 03:46 AM   #28
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

There are a bunch of things you can set up as warrior builds in 4e, but yeah, light cleric isn't really one of them. The only classes not normally set up as warriors that are semi-viable in the role are valor bards and blade pact warlocks.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:22 AM   #29
adm
 
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

Next time Alex comes by, I'll ask him to respond.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: D&D5e Characters-What has worked for you?

There's a reason for this - part of the design concepts were niche protection. Fighters are the best fighters, as opposed to 3.5 where everything EXCEPT fighters were good fighters.
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There are a bunch of things you can set up as warrior builds in 4e, but yeah, light cleric isn't really one of them. The only classes not normally set up as warriors that are semi-viable in the role are valor bards and blade pact warlocks.
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