An idea for gods and cosmic beings

[Whoisme]

I'm planning a campaign in Greek mythology, which is a difficult thing to do with GURPS. I want to my characters to be able to fight and interact with gods of the Greek pantheon, but it is difficult to create beings of that level who don't have such an absurd point value that my PC's don't have a chance.

My solution is to treat the dominion of any given god as an entirely separate being. Since size isn't an advantage or disadvantage, I can make forces and concepts the size of the universe. Thanatos, for example, is the Greek god of death. The force of death might be priced like this

St:0 (-100) DX:0 (-200) IQ: 15 (+100) HT: 20 (+100)

Heart attack: 336 (aura +80%, affects substantial +40%, no trace +20%, always on, selectivity +20%, trigger: any mortal being with less than zero HP -20%, no active defense +300, no roll required if target is below -1xHP +300)

Insubstantial: 120 (always on and affects substantial)

Invisibility: 40

Unkillable 3: 150

154 HP: 154 (size limitation -80%)





Death costs a total of 800 CP.

You can also put the IQ of a cosmic force at a discount if it is only act with intelligence when the god wills it (maybe -20%?) or if it is only able to follow the god's commands (maybe -40%?).

[AlexanderHowl]

No, I do not think that would work. First, a ST 0 entity can be wrestled to death by an infant and cannot do anything back. Second, DX 0 entity cannot move or attack, so people can just avoid the space it occupies. Third, always on and trigger are mutually exclusive modifiers (as are always on and selective effect), so it is an illegal build. I would personally would savage it to death by weasels with Attack Insubstantial, but it would be equally fun to have baby Hercules snuggle it into nonexistence repeatedly. If you make a god, spend the points to make a god, otherwise PCs will do horrible things to it until it wishes that it could permanently die.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

If you make a god, spend the points to make a god, otherwise PCs will do horrible things to it until it wishes that it could permanently die.

This, so much this.
I think it is perfectly ok to have a god be built on an unreasonable amount of points. GURPS is not failing at its core design if some ideas cost a lot of points to be built on. I consider that a feature, not a bug.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Whoisme, correct me if this isn't right; you seem to be saying you want the Greek gods to be mighty powerful divine beings, but also something PCs can smack in combat (like Achilles does at Troy). And that the separate divine dominion NPC is going to be like an ally each (relatively weak) humanoid god has access to?

[Andreas]

You would probably want Underwater (and equivalent enhancements for non-water liquids, solids and other states of matter) on that attack.

[Whoisme]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

No, I do not think that would work. First, a ST 0 entity can be wrestled to death by an infant and cannot do anything back. Second, DX 0 entity cannot move or attack, so people can just avoid the space it occupies. Third, always on and trigger are mutually exclusive modifiers (as are always on and selective effect), so it is an illegal build. I would personally would savage it to death by weasels with Attack Insubstantial, but it would be equally fun to have baby Hercules snuggle it into nonexistence repeatedly. If you make a god, spend the points to make a god, otherwise PCs will do horrible things to it until it wishes that it could permanently die.

You bring up a couple of good points. I'll definitely get rid of always on. Considering it is a force of nature I would have to give it Doesn't Sleep, Doesn't Eat or Drink and Doesn't Breath, or it could definitely be strangled. Adding Injury Tolerance: Homogenous was also something I meant to do but I guess forgot.
I'm not too worried about characters avoiding it considering it would take up the entire universe.
I'm tempted to give it cosmic insubstantial to avoid weasels, but I also like the idea of my characters messing with the forces of nature and facing the wrath of Olympus. Part of the fun of Greek mythology is that you might be capable of beating the gods, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Defeat Apollo and the world might plunge into night and freeze over. Capture Poseidon and the oceans might turn toxic. The reason I don't want to give the gods point values that high is because I want my PC's to be able to fight and interact with them.

[Whoisme]

Originally Posted by Refplace

This, so much this.
I think it is perfectly ok to have a god be built on an unreasonable amount of points. GURPS is not failing at its core design if some ideas cost a lot of points to be built on. I consider that a feature, not a bug.

I don't think it's a bug either. GURPS obviously wasn't made to include characters with powers over universal aspects of reality, or they wouldn't have included so many restrictions on range. If I wanted to make a character like Zeus, who can control all weather on Earth, in the traditional way, I would have to use 1,970,000,000 levels of control: natural phenomena costing 39,400,000,000 CP, not including any other powers I may want to give him. This not only would make him unbeatable to my PC's, but wouldn't allow him to directly act with those powers. That's not to speak of gods that have domain over a universal concept or force.
I realize that the system doesn't intend for this, but it's what I want to use it for.

[Whoisme]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Whoisme, correct me if this isn't right; you seem to be saying you want the Greek gods to be mighty powerful divine beings, but also something PCs can smack in combat (like Achilles does at Troy). And that the separate divine dominion NPC is going to be like an ally each (relatively weak) humanoid god has access to?

That's right. Achillies was actually exactly who I was thinking of when making this.

I was torn earlier over whether to link Duplicate, Alternate Form, Telesend and Mindlink to represent these aspects of reality taking physical form. Then I decided that in Greek mythology it makes more sense that the gods have control over their dominion rather than being a manifestation of it.

[Whoisme]

Originally Posted by Andreas

You would probably want Underwater (and equivalent enhancements for non-water liquids, solids and other states of matter) on that attack.

Thank you, I didn't think of that.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Whoisme

If I wanted to make a character like Zeus, who can control all weather on Earth, in the traditional way, I would have to use 1,970,000,000 levels of control: natural phenomena costing 39,400,000,000 CP, not including any other powers I may want to give him. This not only would make him unbeatable to my PC's, but wouldn't allow him to directly act with those powers. That's not to speak of gods that have domain over a universal concept or force.
I realize that the system doesn't intend for this, but it's what I want to use it for.

You could also go the direction of Underground adventures, in this case limit him to Greece or a larger area whereafter he may conflict with the domain of another god.
Also the PCs wouldnt fight a god by attacking thier domain or trying to one up the god. So your gods could be interacted or defeated socially (happened a lot, at least in the short term with the greeks) or physically, perhaps with a divine weapon or something. All that weather control doesnt say how many HP or DR you have for instance.
Also the gods could be beaten in contests of skill, though again that rarely worked out for the hero (see Arachne)